Posted on February 4, 2008 - at 7:22 am
Hard, Unrepeated American Boulders
8a recently posted an interesting article on really hard (5.14d and up) routes that haven’t been repeated despite having been established years ago. Most of the routes seem unrepeated as much for their obscurity as for their difficulty, but it is definitely an interesting idea for discussion. I imagine a list for unrepeated hard boulders would be much longer than the route list as it seems easier for people to put up hard boulders (although the recent hard route activity in Spain makes me wonder).
I thought it would be interesting to compile a list of hard (V14 and up) boulder problems that have not been repeated in North America. Thanks to everyone for help in compiling these problems (Most of these grades are pure speculation from outside observers):
- Warpath – V15 – James Litz – City of Rocks, ID
- Nuclear War – V14 – Matt Bosley – Horse Den, NY
- Mandala Direct SDS – V14 – Paul Robinson – Buttermilks, CA
- Singularity – V14 – Tim Clifford – Squamish, BC
- Full Package – ?? – Chris Sharma – HCR, Arkansas
- Tilt-a-whirl SDS – V13/14 – James Litz – Lily Boulders, TN
- Lost In The Hood – V14 – Dave Graham – Arkansas
- Resolve – V14 – Shawn Diamond – Gunks, NY
- Bling – V13/14 – Isaac Caldiero – Little Cottonwood Canyon, UT
- Release The Hundes – V14 – Daniel Woods – Moe’s Valley, UT
- Direct North – V14 - Shawn Diamond – Buttermilks, CA
- King Of Town – V14 – Matt Tschohl – Sylvan Lake, SD
Matt Bosley on Nuclear War – Photo: Ivan Greene/Climbing.com
This of course pales in comparison to the list of confirmed V14 and up problems that were established and repeated in the U.S. in just the past five years or so:
|
Problem |
Grade |
Location |
Ascents – FA listed first and then in no particular order |
| Ode to the Modern Man | V14 | Mt. Evans, CO | Woods, Landman, Robinson, Jorgeson, Lamiche, Cardwell, Hukkataival, Wilder |
| Jade | V15 | RMNP, CO | Woods, Landman, Robinson, Hukkataival |
| Witness the Fitness | V15? | Arkansas | Sharma, Nicole |
| Terre De Sienne | V14 | Hueco Tanks, TX | Nicole, Graham, Woods, Robinson, Cardwell, Wilder |
| Terremer | V15 | Hueco Tanks, TX | Nicole, Robinson |
| Aslan | V14 | RMNP, CO | Woods, Landman, McColl, Di Felice |
| Suspension of Disbelief | V13 or 14 | Eldorado Canyon, CO | Graham, Woods |
| Midnight Express | V14 | Boulder Canyon, CO | Landman, Woods, Graham, Allred, Robinson |
| Mandala SDS | V14 | Buttermilks, CA | Lamiche, Graham, Woods, Robinson, McColl, Diamond, Birch, Moroni, Jorgeson, Wilder, French, Goicoechea |
| The Swarm | V14 | Buttermilks, CA | Birch, Wilder, Graham, Landman, Woods, Robinson, Jorgeson, Davis, Clifford, Diamond |
| Echale | V14 | Clear Creek Canyon, CO | Woods, Graham, Robinson |
| The Saddhu | V14 | Temple, NM | Fairfield, Cardwell, Woods, Di Felice |
| Goldfish Trombone | V14 | Happy Boulders, CA | Edwards, Sharma, Pringle, McColl, Woods, Nicole, Martin, Lander, Diamond |
| Esperanza | V14 | Hueco Tanks, TX | Nicole, Litz, Sharma, Woods, Graham, Robinson, Duttle, Pringle, Haynes, Webb Parsons, Wilde |
| Book Of Bitter Aspects | V14 | Bradley, CT | Graham, Schaal, Max Zolotukhin (thinks V13) |
| The Fly | 5.14d/V14 | Rumney, NH | Graham, Parady, Sharma, Lamiche, Kehl (no rope), Jorgeson (no rope), Robinson, Woods, Wilder |
| Wood Grain Grippin’ | V14 | Horseshoe Canyon Ranch, AR | Graham, Woods |
| The Beach | V14 | Moe’s Valley, UT | Woods, Graham |
| Chinese Arithmetic | V13/14? | Lilly Boulders, TN | Litz, Woods |
| Big Worm | 14 | Mt. Evans, CO | Graham, Schulte, Robinson |
Any other problems for either list?? Additions/Corrections?? Leave a comment below.
You can argue over the grades of these individual problems, but I think this is also clearly a testament to the strong climbers in the U.S that problems of this difficulty are being repeated so often. A combination of two of Daniel Woods, Paul Robinson or Ty Landman has climbed several of the problems.
There are probably a much greater number of problems V14 or harder abroad that are unrepeated, but I am admittedly not as familiar with the international scene. It is strange though that supposed V15/16s in Europe like Tonino ‘78 (V16) are being repeated multiple times or are getting quickly repeated like Zangerl’s New Base Line (originally graded hard V15). And perhaps the most famous proposed V16 in the world, Koyamada’s Wheel of Life, is a massive link-up of several boulder problems with none of them individually being harder than V12. Compare this with an American problem like the V15 Terremer which connects a hard V12 with a V14. Obviously the comparisons are not exact but it is something to think about…
Mauro Calibani on his Tonino ‘78 - V10 + V14 = V16?
Photo: Amanda Bellina/Freakclimbing
Areas: Arkansas Boulder Canyon Bradley Buttermilks Clear Creek Canyon Eldorado Canyon Gunks Happy Boulders Hueco Tanks Lilly Boulders Little Cottonwood Canyon Moe's Valley Mt. Evans RMNP Rumney Squamish Sylvan Lake The Temple
Problems: Aslan (V14) Big Worm (V13/14) Book of Bitter Aspects (V14) Chinese Arithmetic (V13/14) Echale (V14) Esperanza (V14) Goldfish Trombone (V14) Jade (V15) Mandala (V12) Mandala SDS (V14) Midnight Express (V14) Ode to the Modern Man (V14) Suspension of Disbelief (V13/14) Terre De Sienne (V14) Terremer (V15) The Beach (V14) The Fly (5.14d) The Saadhu (V14) The Swarm (V14) Witness the Fitness Wood Grain Grippin' (V14)
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February 4, 2008
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Tony said:
I thought that Graham did Midnight Express as well, I’m not certain though.
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February 4, 2008
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Climbing Narcissist said:
Correct, can’t believe I missed that one
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February 4, 2008
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Sean said:
Esperanza (V14) by Nicole. Repeated by Sharma and a few others?
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February 4, 2008
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Climbing Narcissist said:
I guess initially I was trying to keep the list recent but I should just go ahead and add the older ones as well as there aren’t too many left.
Esperanza has been repeated quite a few times from what I can remember.
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February 4, 2008
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andy said:
You forgot goldfish trombone at the happies…
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February 4, 2008
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Climbing Narcissist said:
Thanks. I think I had left it off because it was graded V13 originally. Might as well add it.
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February 4, 2008
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Another Andy said:
V10 + V14 = V24!
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February 4, 2008
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Climbing Narcissist said:
Also on the math front, DG’s “Story of two worlds” adds a V14 sit start to an existing V14 to get a grade of V15. Says DG:
“I think this is the hardest bloc (boulder) yet, and I think it can change the malprogression we can see when we are seeing millions of 8b+ and 8c blocs climbed everywhere. Now it’s just about comparison.”
http://www.climbing.com/news/hotflashes/storyoftwoworlds/
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February 4, 2008
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zonk said:
narc, are you trying to list all ascents?
off the top of my head,
tyler landman also repeated coeur de leon, really quickly too. and pretty positive than bernd zangerl has also climbed coeur.
lamiche also climbed ode to the modern man.
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February 4, 2008
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Climbing Narcissist said:
Yeah, all ascents. Like I said though, the entire list was by memory owing to server problems at 8a hindering further research.
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February 4, 2008
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fancyketchup said:
Freaks has been downgraded to 8B, Paul even suggested 8A+. Didn’t Litz get the second ascent of Esperanza? And what of Suspension of Disbelief in Eldo getting the upgrade by Woods? On a mathematcial tangent, if Story is 8B/+ into 8B+ for a total of 8C, how can Tonino ’78s 7C+ into 8B+ equal 8C+? And Terremer is 8A/+ into 8B+ for 8C? Crazy…
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February 4, 2008
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sonic said:
does anyone know if sharma’s problem in magic wood called “practice of the wild” has been repeated?
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February 4, 2008
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Climbing Narcissist said:
FK – Freaks had slipped my mind on the downgrade front. JE said that if Freaks is 8A+ he is quitting climbing…
As for Suspension I’m not sure about its place on the list with the conflicting opinions. I’ll put it on instead of Freaks and we’ll see what happens when the weather gets better for P-rob to finally get the send
As for the math. Clearly when linking together problems there is no set forumla for how to determine the final grade but for someone able to climb V14, adding a V10 start shouldn’t increase the difficulty all that much.
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February 4, 2008
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Climbing Narcissist said:
I am curious why there has been no word anywhere on Bosley’s Nuclear War after the initial news of his send. Surely Paul R must know something more about this problem being that it is at the Gunks.
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February 4, 2008
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zonk said:
hey narc, yeah, we’ve all experienced that. even though they try hard, 8a.nu often has server problems. i don’t really blame them though as i hardly imagine they are swimming in money.
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February 4, 2008
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the treacherous baron “big poppa” von chosscrush VII said:
wait, what? there’s no birthday party in here ??!!??!!
question: how many times has ‘corizone’ [sp?] been repeated in mexican music? you know, like, the word. i think, like, a bazillion times and no downgrade? wtfrik?
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February 4, 2008
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Climbing Narcissist said:
Not sure about that one Zonk, I’ll have to look it up when the site is back up. With the traffic levels that 8a has they should be making at least a fair amount of money.
TTB”BP”VC7 – I think Corazon is down to about V7 or so…
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February 4, 2008
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matt said:
roses & bluejays (barrington)
Alma Blanca (v13 hueco, nicole and maybe moon)
algerita (v13 hueco nicole, woods)
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February 4, 2008
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Climbing Narcissist said:
In order to keep the list more manageable I am trying to focus solely on problems V14 and up. It would be cool to put together a list of V13s in the US though.
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February 4, 2008
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Kevlar said:
It is pretty crazy to see how the grades in europe are quite a bit harder, but there are more repeats
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February 4, 2008
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Dom said:
not 100% enough to add to list for sure, but worthy of noting, Matt Birch (im not sure if he is still in Bishop, probably is) has been in Bishop recently, and I saw him working mandalion in bad conditions with taped fingers, coming extremely close, id bet he has done it, along with goldfish. also you may have forgotten Somewhere in Time (v14) in Tramway, CA. Birch had the FA, and Woods repeated.
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February 4, 2008
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Luke said:
From what I heard Somewhere in Time is more like V13/14. Woods didn’t think it was very hard. From his 8a sheet “Matt Birch did the FA and graded it v14 originally. I thought it felt v13…”
Here is a list of routes V12 and harder in Colorado. Don’t know if its up to date though.
http://www.boulderingmedia.com/list.html
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February 4, 2008
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Climbing Narcissist said:
Dom – I will keep my eye out for any Matt Birch news. I was thinking what Luke said with regard to somewhere in time.
Luke – Ryan’s list is fantastic. It seems like the only problems missing are Trice and its new variations.
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February 4, 2008
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hayden said:
don’t forget shaun diamond, with ascents of mandala sds (the original name, I believe daniel coined the mandalion name) and the swarm.
i believe dave graham also put up a problem in Connecticut called the book of bitter aspects that he called 14 and i have not heard of any repeats.
james litz climbed a problem called morphine which he graded 13 but it is likely harder than most of the 14s in the US, and will probably never repeated.
i have also heard that nuclear war is not 14, but that is likely just climber gossip and given that it is still unrepeated it could very well be 14.
dave graham also called the fly v14 (despite the fact he did it on a rope) but i have also heard 13 for it.
if you expand to canada then you get tim clifford’s the singularity (unrepeated, despite attempts by nicole and landman)
this is also not including problems where sharma’s beta was likely v14 or harder only for later climbers to find an easier method
josh haynes has also sent esperanza
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February 4, 2008
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rjtrials said:
Litz had the second ascent of Esperanza
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February 5, 2008
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NorthEast said:
book of bitter aspects has not been repeated. p-rob has put a couple of days on it and is close. it could be the hardest problem in the northeast.
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April 2, 2009
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jacob said:
phillip schaal repeated book of bitter aspects
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February 5, 2008
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Climbing Narcissist said:
Thanks for the all the info.
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February 5, 2008
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Matt C said:
James Litz’s Morphine is one of the sickest problems I’ve seen. Been to Hueco many times…seen many of the 14’s there…watched Litz on Esperanza….The holds on morphine make some of the holds on esperanza look like jugs. razors on a roof…crazy….
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February 5, 2008
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zorro said:
nuclear is at the master bedroom (hour south of Gunks). i heard nothing there is as hard as it’s graded, but that’s neither here nor there.
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February 5, 2008
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paul r said:
yep the book is absolutely amazing! and i am very close, hopefully i will get back out there sometime in the near future. also boz’s line is not in the gunks, it is at the horse den. i have been there one time and the day i was there it was soaking wet. i tried it little bit and got close even though it was wet. imo i would prolly think soft 8b, but yet again i did not do it so my thoughts dont really count until i go out and do it. i know that the line will appear in dosage volume 5 in the northeast dose though!
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February 5, 2008
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Climbing Narcissist said:
Thanks for the info zorro and paul. I sort of figured that nuclear war might be a bit overhyped but until someone repeats it I guess I’ll just go with the initial report. Should be cool to see it in Dosage, I didn’t know it had been filmed.
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February 5, 2008
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zonk said:
tim clifford graded the singularity (aka round room project) as V14.
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February 6, 2008
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gabor said:
boz never really graded nuclear war V14.. he just did the FA and when people asked him, he said “yeah maybe V12, V13, V14?? i dont know.” either way its pretty hard and ive been on it, feels harder then a lot of V13s that Ive tried. then again i didnt do it, so i dont know
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February 6, 2008
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gabor said:
also, the 8a article tries to focus on routes put up a long time ago that stand unrepeated. climbs like warpath, nuclear war, and mandala direct assis were just put up pretty recently..
i think instead of focusing on V14 and up, this list should include any climbs that are V12 or higher that were put up over 5 years ago but have not been repeated..
meathook in colorado – jim holloway
morphine – litz
chinese arithmetic – litz
book of bitter aspects
etc etc
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February 6, 2008
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Climbing Narcissist said:
Gabor – I agree but it sort of illustrates the difference between routes and boulders. There is a long list of repeated hard boulders and very few that have stood unrepeated for a long time.
The litz problems are probably unrepeated as much for their obscure locations than anything else but it would be cool for others to give them a go. There is also Genetics at HP40 that hasn’t been repeated as well.
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February 6, 2008
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Ryan said:
There were rumors of a repeat of morphine by a guy named Pydora (not sure of his last name). I believe he did it in a day. Brian Camp knows more about this.
A good list is up on udini.de: http://www.udini.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=102
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February 6, 2008
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Climbing Narcissist said:
Interesting, there was a guy named Py in the midwest a while back that was quite strong.
Thanks for the link ryan, that is a pretty nice list!
Have fun in Heuco…
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February 6, 2008
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Tony said:
I like this part
The current state of rating hard bouldering/climbing is like the 100m sprint without any direct comparison, face to face competition and before the invention of even a timer…
A couple of strong athletes do their thing in some remote areas, come back and report: “It really felt like 9.6 secs yesterday, the track was fast, I was feeling strong, the wind was making this typical 9.6 sound…”
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February 6, 2008
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peter said:
yes tony, only in a sport where a timer will never be invented. i’m hoping the winds start making this typical 5.14 sound.
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February 7, 2008
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gabor said:
yeah boz has actually tried both morphine and chinese arithmetic and he says that morphine didnt feel too crazy, probably a normal 8b+. also ive heard that its not such a great line. boz also said that chinese arithmetic felt really hard, way harder then morphine. perhaps 8c?
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February 7, 2008
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steve schultz said:
Brian, if you want to get in touch with pi get a hold of nic o. from nicros. if i remember right he may still be up in the twin cities. very strong on crimps so morphine may fit him well from what i saw of the line.
he climbed down in madison for a while with mike and todd and always blew us away. very very strong fingers.
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February 7, 2008
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zonk said:
hi gabor, a list of old V12s and up that are unrepeated would be cool. that would be analogous to how that list on 8a.nu focused on older routes. i think such a list would be harder to put together. unfortunately, i know that i could not form such a list. my knowledge of hard sport and hard bouldering is very nascent.
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February 8, 2008
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gabor said:
yeah, well i know there are probably a couple in north carolina probably down south.. theres one crack boulder somewhere in the south that litz put up and rated V12 that i dont think has been repeated. also in hp40, both genetic V11 and great dane V10 i think are both unrepeated. im sure there are a lot more.
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February 8, 2008
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gabor said:
and also for the original list, the boulder that chris does in dosage 3 is also 8B+ ive heard. its the one where he does the jump into the vertical crack. i think its called the full package or something.
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February 8, 2008
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Climbing Narcissist said:
Yeah, I hadn’t really thought of that problem. It sure looked really hard but it was overshadowed in the movie by Witness and King Lion. Maybe with the crew of Landman, Graham and Cardwell down there right now we might hear some more about it.
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February 11, 2008
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Luke said:
I am putting togeather a list of V12+ problems in California. I would love some input since the list is far from complete and mainly focuses on Bishop. Comments would be appreciated.
http://dreaminvertical.blogspot.com/2008/02/hard-boulder-problems-in-california.html
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February 12, 2008
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JE said:
sorry i didnt get in on this earlier, Morphine was repeated in a day by Pi from Minnesota and he suggested V12. Litz has never graded Warpath, only others have made suggestions. Chinese Arithmetic is very hard, maybe hard V13 maybe V14, and interestingly enough I was told from a very reputable source that Litz thought Tilta-whirl direct (his other problem at the Obed) was harder. Book of Bitter Aspects is unrepeated, but it’s not as hard as Jade, it could be a hard V13. There are several V13s in Pennsylvania of which there should be some skeptiscism.
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February 12, 2008
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Climbing Narcissist said:
Thanks for the info Jamie. I climbed with Pi a bit during my time in Madison, crazy strong fingers as Steve pointed out. Chill dude as well. He is in a few Nicros ads that I remember seeing in the magazines lately.
I’ll add the Litz problems to the list even if they might be V13.
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February 12, 2008
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Luke said:
Perhapses you are thinking of some of the problems in PA from this list? http://www.newenglandbouldering.com/stories/nehardest.html
From the 4 years I climbed in PA there are definably some legit hard problems (V10+). Adam Markert and Char Fetterolf who were Haycock, PA locals could pull down hard. The hardest problem that I had heard of was a project called Big Monday that was supposed to be V13. I don’t think it was ever sent and these days Adam is living in Colorado.
I might be skeptical about the V13 at Hunter rocks since sandstone was not high quality but the rock tended to be steep and pocketed so it is possible.
Just my 2 cents since I have been to those areas.
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February 27, 2008
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Zonk said:
who is Pi? what’s his full name? can you provide a little history?
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February 27, 2008
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peter said:
if this is the same pi, he’s this crazy strong guy who “climbs” up in the cities. really he lurks around the back of gyms…he’s kinda that guy who everyone knows is really strong but never puts his shoes on. the few times i’ve seen him actually climb i’ve been impressed. very impressed.
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March 21, 2008
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mike said:
Little Cottonwood Canyon has a couple of unrepeated problems in that range:1) Cheech, rated V13 – done nearly 10 years ago by Garth Miller, right next to Bully, unrepeated2) Mantra, rated V13 – right exit to Copperhead, Garth Miller again
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March 28, 2008
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andy said:
so yeah the never ending grade debates….
interestingly enough, several of the FA’ers of these problems(Bos, Litz, etc.) never graded these problems..they have simply been interpolated from observers..
there are several unrepeated sharma problems in NE that have been “estimated” at V13+
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April 20, 2008
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Steve said:
Second the Garth Miller problems in Utah. From memory this was on the same trip that he was flashing 10’s, 11’s and at least one 12. Cheech took him Quite a few days.
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May 20, 2008
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dom said:
kevin jorgeson sent mandala sit. gabri is so crazy for trying to downgrade it
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May 27, 2008
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Dan said:
Just a thought. Many times linked problems can be harder than the sum of their parts for a reason both obvious and not so. Imagine, that you link two v10s for a v15. Crazy right? But the thing that most people don’t think about is the linking move(s) themselves. What if you link a v12 into a v14, but the 1,2,3 whatever moves actually connecting the two are v16? Just some food for thought.
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July 30, 2008
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Matt said:
RESOLVE V14-FA by Shaun Diamond in the Gunks.
Bling V13/14-FA Isaac Caldiero in LCC
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July 30, 2008
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Narc said:
Thanks for the update Matt. I will update the list.
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November 19, 2008
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Julian said:
FYI, access at B*****y in CT is sensitive. Not sure if publicity is a good idea.
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November 20, 2008
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Narc said:
I will remove any specific reference to it. Thanks.
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November 20, 2008
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PepsiTwist said:
If anybody is still interested Pi’s full name is Phaydara Vongsavanthong. He does the marketing/advertising stuff for Nicros. Really fun guy to climb with. He doesnt talk alot about any of his ascents which makes it hard to get a gauge for how strong he really is. If you see him climb though, it leaves no doubt as to how incredibly strong he is.
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November 20, 2008
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Narc said:
People should stop being so humble! How are other people supposed to spray about their mad skillz if we don’t know what they are up to?
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November 20, 2008
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StellarTemple said:
I know, right? Stupid humble people and their humility!!
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March 8, 2009
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chris said:
just to ask everyones opinion…
1) the swarm and the mandala sit starts were originally graded v13. what happened?
2) seems like all who do ode to the modern man say (face to face) it’s v13.
3) we are experiencing grade compression over the last year or so, yes? i’m not bothered to say why, but it is happening.
4) bernd z did do coeur.. he took 2 trips and a torn tendon. some have done it in about 30 min, some have said v12… ? kneebars!
5) more and faster repeats don’t hafta mean soft. consensus takes time. it don’t matter, it’s about the individual and their feeling. the same problems that made dave G famous in his early days in the park have all been downgraded, not because he was wrong, but things are being compressed. John Sherman once said he thought crown of aragorn would be v11, that he didn’t think the grades should be sliced so thin.. another problem, like slashface, that people do by the truckload and “take” the grade, but slag it off amongst friends… honesty to self is all that matters. If a v11 feels v12 to you, maybe it is, or maybe it exploits your weaknesses. maybe you should go surfing.
I liked the comment about the track runners.
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March 9, 2009
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Narc said:
Interesting questions. I will try to incorporate these into my upcoming review/update of this post.
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March 24, 2009
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Adrian said:
Jon Cardwell has since downgraded The Tipping Point to 8B according to his 8a card.
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March 24, 2009
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Narc said:
Thanks for the update!
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March 28, 2009
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Cannud said:
I should point you to Christophe Maschelein’s 8a. It seems that a couple years ago he did The Fly and got the 2nd ascents of Chinese Arithmetic and Morphine. Interesting comment/rating of Morphine vs. Fly.
http://www.8a.nu/user/Profile.aspx?UserId=15583
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March 28, 2009
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Cannud said:
I spoke too soon. Not a real person. Disregard. What a strange set of problems to pretend a fake person has climbed…
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March 31, 2009
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Zach said:
An article on Urban Climber Magazine’s online site has some info on the Litz problems at Obed. http://www.urbanclimbermag.com/themag/features/the_legend_of_litz_and_the_lilly_boulders/
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April 1, 2009
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Narc said:
One of my favorite climbing articles in recent memory