As climbers we often spend a lot of time disagreeing about seemingly unimportant things. Is that route 5.12a or just hard 5.11d? Is using your knee on a topout a dab that nullifies an ascent or no? What constitutes good style when it comes to placing gear and hanging draws? Despite all these disagreements, one subject that most climbers agree on is that of paying to climb outdoors. Next to climbing being banned altogether (or restricted as in Hueco), the next worst thing to most climbers is having to pay to access it.
I came to thinking of this issue after my recent trip to the Gunks where it costs $15 per person per day to climb (other activities are cheaper)! I was also at Horse Pens 40 this fall where it costs $10 per person per day for climbing and camping. Closer to home, one must have a State Park sticker in order to climb at Devil’s Lake State Park which costs a more affordable $25 per year for one vehicle. I also remember reading recently that the cost of climbing at Eldorado Canyon in Colorado will be going up sharply in 2008. Contrast this with areas like those in Bishop and the Red River Gorge where there is basically an unlimited amount of climbing available at no direct cost to climbers. Ironically the one area that used to ask for donations at the Red, Torrent Falls, closed last year due to landowner unrest over the sense of entitlement displayed by climbers, many of whom no doubt balked at the $2 donations requested.
High Exposure at the Gunks – It will (only?) cost you and your partner $30 to experience this high
It seems as though the future holds only increased costs for climbers. More and more people climbing has led to increased impact on many areas like Indian Creek among others, and imposing user fees seems like it might be a necessary evil to maintain access to these sorts of areas.
The sense of entitlement that we climbers as a user group sometimes have is well documented, and it seems as though the issue of paying to climb outdoors is just another symptom of this. I personally have never had much of a problem paying to climb. However, I don’t do that much climbing outdoors so any opportunity is a good one no matter the cost, and I spend 40 hours a week sitting at a desk so I can afford to do these sorts of things.
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I’m sure feelings are much different for those that spend a great deal of time climbing outdoors.
So what does everyone else think? Do we have a certain basic right to access these generally wild and undeveloped lands for free? Does paying to climb at a particular area affect where you go climbing? Is there a certain threshold after which the cost is too much? I haven’t gone on any long trips in a long time so I would be interested to hear what it is like for people on extended climbing trips as well. Take the poll and leave a comment with your thoughts.
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[poll=5]
you don’t have to pay to climb at redwing….and temps are going up this weekend. PSYCHED
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I’ve climbed many places where I’ve had to pay a parking, camping, or use fee. All of these places have been either state or national parks, and I completely understand their need to charge people. They need money in order to maintain trails, roads, parking lots, etc.
I’m a little troubled about that fact that they charge $15 for climbing at the Gunks whereas it’s cheaper if you’re just say hiking? Do they offer extra facilities/services for climbers only?
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I believe the higher costs for climbers at the Gunks was to offset rescue costs. I’m assuming they don’t have to rescue very many hikers.
As far as I could tell there are no discernible services provided beyond a couple of portable toilets but I could be wrong about that.
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There are ALWAYS alternatives to paying for climbing. Of course, if you’re dying to do “that” specific route, you gotta throw down some cash, but as I get older, I’m finding that I like the more out of the way, alpine, backcountry, away from all the people experience.
Ever been to Eldorado on a sunny weekend? It’s so crazy as to be not really worth it…
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I’ve never been to Eldo but I hope to soon. I imagine it is probably a lot like the Gunks or other popular areas where the crowds can get annoying.
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I would be interested in hearing from some of those that are voting that they avoid areas that charge money. What areas and what other areas do you visit instead??
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i generally only climb at areas that don’t charge you, much less even know if you are there. this would include the ENTIRE New River Gorge, Meadow River and Summersville Lake areas. Not to mention the hundreds of other pristine developed cliffs that the locals keep for themselves and their closest friends. yep, there’s a lot of rock in WV.
i remember having to pay at Eldo, Torrent and the like…but to keep numbers down it is better than a bouncer at the gate keeping the crowds limited.
i know at areas such as the Black, there is a log of who is on what route per day, the local ethic dictates that only one party be on a single route per day. this is a great way of not having to pay AND keeping the experience intact. however, good luck for that implementation policy at Miliscary or DL.
thoughts?
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I think what you are describing at the Black probably also coincides with the more adventurous ethic of trad climbers. The trad ethic of DL has sadly been severely compromised it seems by the ease of toprope access which has led to the popularity of large groups.
Miliscary is more like an amusement park/sandbox all wrapped into one. I think they should build a deck across the entire crag and open up a smoothie stand or something. Thankfully the insane rate of new crag development at the red has spread out the impact but Miliscary seems as crowded as ever. I don’t think I will be able to get off the ground of Fuzzy in a couple of years due to the erosion that has taken place.
It is good to hear that there are still large areas out there that are still free (in more ways than one). But please stop rubbing in how much better WV is than WI 🙂
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In the Black you register for the climb you are going to do, but any number of people can sign up for the same climb. Most just don’t because they don’t want to get stuck behind slower folks, but it’s not unusual to see multiple parties on Comic Relief or Escape Artist.
Paying for climbing seems to go against a lot of what people like about it, ie the freedom and all. I used to climb at the Gunks every weekend, but now that I hardly ever pay for climbing, it would tweak me a little. It all depends on what you get back in return, in terms of facilities and what not.
Also, usually at pay to play places you can get a season pass, which drastically reduces the cost. That’s the case at national parks, rifle, etc.
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Yeah, I’m pretty sure they have some sort of season pass at the Gunks as well.
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The do have a season pass at the Gunks which is not very expensive. This is similar to the National Parks Pass which is also quite affordable. Also the gunks provides free camping which offsets the cost of having to pay to climb.
Additionally at the Gunks you can still climb for free if you go to the Nears. It may not have as much bouldering as the carriage road but the routes are all still fun. If you were to look at the alternative, which could be a closure such as Torrent Falls, it would seem that paying is the least we can do.
As most people have said there are still plenty of places where you do not have to pay. But if you want to go do High-E then you will have to pay just like you pay to get into Eldo, Yosemite, Joshua Tree and many other climbing areas.
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Wasn’t aware when were there that you could climb at the nears for free. How much is the season pass??
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From the parking lot at the overlook, right before the overpass, you just walk 100 feet up on the left side of the road and then take a left when the guard rail ends to go to the nears. No rangers. It can be busy but there are so many routes its generally not a problem.
The yearly pass is $85 for the first person and $50 for another adult in the same household. http://www.mohonkpreserve.org/index.php?individual
Notice that it is a $35 premium to be a rock climbing over a hiker.
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Yeah, we went to the Nears but our understanding was that you had to pay there as well. Oh well, money well spent either way. The climbing at the nears was very adventurous to say the least. Rather crowded though but we were lucky to not have to wait much.
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It seems to me that charging extra for climbing versus other activities is just a way to jump on the climbing bandwagon. The sport has grown from an isolated community of hard-core climbers (long, long ago) to readily accessible (thru your local gym) activity.
I’m not sure if the increased cost is intended to keep the pressure in some areas down? (i.e gov’t taxes the heck out of cigarettes in order to discourage use, and they make money from the diehards who just on’t quit) Or if it the perception that climbing results in so many more injuries that they are trying to recoup some additional ‘cost’ in allowing people to scale a vertical trail versus a horizontal one?
Good topic though….
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You have to pay $15 to climb in Jtree and $10 a night to camp! Total bummer, however you got to pay for those nice new roads somehow.
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The Gunks is privately held land, as opposed to state or federal land. For some reason, it doesn’t bother me a bit to support the Mohonk Preserve, whereas I do chafe at the bit about paying more than a nominal fee to get into government parks.
FYI – The Mohonk Preserve does offer a free membership(the $35 hiker’s version) for volunteers who donate something like 40 hours of work.
One good thing for poor climbers is that Camp Slime is free, and right next to the cliffs. That can be a savings for someone, if they are used to paying for camping, which can offset the day use fee.
I wish the Gunks had an “in-between” sort of thing for visiting climbers, though. It’s a yearly pass or a day pass, and that sucks for people who might make an annual pilgrimage of 4-5 days.
Still – it costs me what – $10/night to camp in Jtree plus the 7-day park pass. I go there twice a year for 2-week trips each visit. It’s about the same cost as camp/climbing at the Gunks and a National park! True, a much nicer camp….but I would be just as happy with more primitive situation.
And finally, as was mentioned above – Where there’s a will, there’s a way….But I don’t think it’s a good idea to publicize those “ways.”
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