If I were to have had you guess who the first woman to break the V14 barrier would be you’d likely have thrown out some familiar American names like Payne, Puccio or Johnson, or perhaps one of the international names like Stöhr or Johansen. Well, all of those women may some day climb a V14, but it turns out that Japanese climber Tomoko Ogawa was the first woman to climb V14.
After three years of work, the 34-year-old Ogawa repeated Dai Koyamada’s Catharsis (V14) in Shiobara, Japan. Footage of her send can be seen here. She wrote about the ascent on her blog which you can see a very poor Google translation of here.
Daniel Woods has also repeated Catharsis, an ascent he made on a trip to Japan earlier in 2012. You can check out a lengthy video from his trip here which features him climbing the problem 2nd try starting around the 11-minute mark.
The problem might have seen a repeat even before Daniel’s ascent: http://www.dpmclimbing.com/articles/view/tomoko-ogawa-becomes-first-woman-climb-v14
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Thanks for the heads up
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Looks more like a v13+ than a 14
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Based on what exactly?
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Not sure if these comments are trolling or serious. In any case, I sent a V5 in the gym the other day. Pretty sure it looked like V4 on the send though.
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downgrade
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If Daniel and Dai have suggested v14, I think the rest of us can smile and offer a heartful congratulations. All downgrade talk is crap.
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Some of these trolls need to realize a few things:
– being a woman does not necessitate a downgrade
– nor does being an ASIAN female climber (much of society appears to view this group as the most physically weak)
– they will never have the dedication to work on a problem for as long as she did
– and how can they have a say in the matter when they’ve never climbed the problem, nor could they ever even come close to doing so.
Regardless, mad respect to Tomoko Ogawa!
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So then can I call the egg V10 again? How about better eat your wheaties? Or sex after death?
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TX – Until you climb Catharsis, quit trolling. Sherman at least climbed better eat your wheaties before proposing a downgrade.
This thread and the one on 8a should show that grades are nothing more than a general subjective measure of difficulty, and better yet, that there’s always a bunch of wankers who get their man panties in a bunch when a woman climbs harder than they do.
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but the climb wasn’t downgraded until bobbi sent it–same for the other two climbs i mentioned–and well after they had established grades. so if women can indeed climb as hard as men, why not reestablish the consensus on these notoriously sandbagged climbs?
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I’m all for re-establishing wheaties at V12…at least until I can finally finish it, then it can’t be any harder than V7.
I was under the impression Sex after death was downgraded just as much because of new beta using a heel hook on the ledge out left than anything else.
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Nice to see an unknown do something of this magnitude for either male or female. Love the dedication.
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Tomoko Ogawa should not be considered an unknown. She has been competing Internationally since at least 2002 – http://www.icc-info.org/pstambl.php?all=1&person=5625&cat=5, won the Asian X-Games in 2006, and Sendfest in Salt Lake City (the pro open tradeshow comp) in 2005 – http://www.climbing.com/news/mammut-sendfest-results/. She got 5th at ABS Nationals in Baltimore in 2009. She has also climbed multiple V12s outside.
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Thanks for the background Jackie!
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Immediately remembered her name from that ABS Nationals you mentioned. She was a beast, even for on dynamic, Americanized setting.
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Hard to tell the sarcastic ones from the idiots these days… especially via text
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My only question regards the “three years” it took her to do the problem. Does this mean she tried it one time three years ago, and then just came back a week ago to send? Does it mean she tried it now and again as her skills improved over a three year period? Does it mean she was flogging the route into submission for three years before it finally relented? Its a totally different ascent depending on what is meant by “three years of work.”
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First of all, this is a spectacular climb by an amazing and accomplished female athlete. The dedication it took is unreal, props to her! The two problems with grades are the subjectivity and how many attempts/years to climb a problem. We know the first attempt or flash, but try number 2 to 500 get lumped together as sends. No solution offered, but we all know v14 is off the charts for any female and almost all males. I suspect it will be a few years before we see another female v14 send…
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Just because you work it 500 times does not diminish the difficulty of the climb. That is like saying, well it was easy for so and so because they were dedicated, and worked damn hard. Anyone could climb like that if they were that committed. Duh.
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Uhhh . . . the amount of effort put into a climb does not change its grade. It might be a basis on which to grade a problem in comparison to others, but working a problem more than another person does not mean the grade should be different for you.
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8a.nu says 30-40 days of effort. No idea where they got that info though.
This is an incredible achievement by any standard, perhaps even more so in light of the amount of effort it took her. Few climbers ever put that amount of work into a single climb. A brilliant display of motivation and dedication.
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flogged into submission?
what?
its a Rock.
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You guys miss the point completely. Its not the grade that is at issue. Its the quality of the ascent.
Flogging just isn’t impressive at any grade (except for the aspect of determination). Any climber male or female who puts 30 – 40 days of effort into a climb over a three year period is working way above their base level of competence. Granted, firsts are always important and great for the people who achieve them, and she should be proud. But, the hyperbolic language here is crazy: “brilliant” “amazing” “incredible” its none of those things unless you think women suck at rock climbing. If you think that, then your awe is understandable. I don’t think women suck at rock climbing and I’ll bet you 100 internet dollars that a woman under the age of 20 will flash V14 in the next five years.
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Douglas – you’ve missed the point completely. The “quality of the ascent?” Really? Who are you to judge how another climber spends their time? Sharma and Gullich spent an insane amount time on their historic climbs, as did Christian Core. Are you saying that Jumbo Love, Action Directe, and Gioia were not quality ascents? Forget the fact that a woman flashing v14 would obviously be more impressive than a woman sending v14 after many attempts. The point is you may not find it impressive, but many others do.
Seriously disappointed to read this comment from you.
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I’ll bet you infinite internet dollars that you couldn’t make one move on this V14, even with an infinite number of days.
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If you don’t undertand why people are impressed by a person projecting and sending a climb two full grades harder than anything else they have ever done, and in the process becoming the first woman to ever climb a certain grade, then I think it’s safe to say you’re the one missing the point.
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I think you guys are missing Douglas’ point. He is not talking about this ascent relative to his ability or that of the average climber, but other top females. And I agree. This is a breakthrough in numbers for women, not ability. Someone like Ashima who can send v13 relatively quickly could certainly hit v14 with hundreds of attempts over many years. Douglas is right to say that this ascent is a badass display of determination, but is not showcasing a level of ability that is new to female climbers. Granted, his choice of words did seem a little harsh to me as well.
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Speaking for myself, I did not miss his point. I just think it’s a stupid, incorrect point. Do you not think Angie Payne, Alex Puccio, etc, don’t have long-term crazy-hard projects that they haven’t been able to send yet? There’s a reason no woman had climbed V14 before – it’s INSANELY difficult. If I’m not mistaken, only three women (Payne, Stohr, Shiraishi) have even climbed V13 before. So, no, I don’t think “women suck at rock climbing,” but I also don’t expect tons of V14s to get sent anytime soon, especially not flashes. (Only Daniel Woods and Adam Ondra have flashed V14. Most people can’t even dream of it.) Ashima is a special case, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she sends V14 within the next couple of years. Otherwise, no one’s even on the radar close to that grade.
As sp mentioned above, famous male climbers who broke into new grade territory were never questioned about the “quality” of their ascents; it takes time to break into a new grade. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be a new grade.
Imagine Nalle sends his Sisu project two or three years from now and calls it, after maybe dozens of days of effort, V17. Will we be on this website talking about how it is not a “quality” ascent, because it took him a long time? Come on.
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In climbing, we tend to view the athletes who are currently at or near the top levels as demi-gods doing the impossible. So in the 1970’s 5.12 climbers were worshiped, in the 1980 it was 5.13 climbers, in the 1990’s 5.14 climbers. Now days perfectly average climbers attain those grades. So was climbing 5.12 in the 1970s a brilliant and amazing task, or was it a necessary part of the development of the sport; an achievement that was conceptually important despite not really being all that difficult from an athletic perspective? We do need ascents that push grades upward but often the rest of us misunderstand what those ascents mean. Its better to think of V14 as representing a temporary conceptual barrier for women than it is to think that it defines an athletic leap. These ascents serve the purpose of opening other people’s eyes to what is possible but they don’t define athletic limits. Admittedly, I have a different perspective on these things than many commentators here, perhaps because I’ve spent some time at the higher levels of the sport and because I have dedicated 22 years to the study and advancement of climbing performance.
I suggest that these ascents are necessary and they do a service to the climbers who come later, but the worshipping just holds the sport back. The 9 – 14 year old girls I see at the gym, should not be thinking “my gosh climber X is so amazing for doing climb y!!!” Those girls should be thinking, “yea, V14 is inevitable for me.” After all, you can go to many ice skating rinks and gymnastic centers in the US on any given saturday and see 9 – 14 year old girls doing things that are quantifiably more difficult than climbing V15 or redpointing 5.15.
One of the things that was so great about being a climber in SLC in the early 1990’s was that while my generation was putting up and getting redpoints of routes we thought were “hard” (5.13c – 5.14a). The kids we were coaching and seeing at the gyms, were not in awe of what we were doing, their attitude was pretty much “game on!” and they were determined to be just as good / better than we were; it didn’t take long for them to recognize their vision. Another example I like, that goes in the opposite direction, is a climber like Dick Williams who gained his fame by being a 5.10 climber in the days when that was considered hard. What’s cool about his example is that 20 years later when he was in his 50’s and getting no attention for his climbing he was a solid 5.12 climber. He got famous for doing “hard stuff” that was actually well below his potential as a climber.
SP. There is a difference between judging how someone spends their time, and being objective about the athletic quality of an ascent. Obviously, when we climb in a way that we deem adds value to our lives we are doing something that is beyond critique. But when we do something and it becomes part of the public discourse of the sport, and people start to react to it and describe it, then there is no reason to not offer different view points. Regarding the rest of your statement. Of course you can talk about those climbers and those lines in that way but, what if the truth about someone like Sharma is that he is a 5.17 climber who hasn’t reached his potential? Wouldn’t that change how you think about his 5.15 ascents?
Bojangles: “This is a breakthrough in numbers for women, not ability”
Exactly.
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This is condescending garbage. Do you think that people online who are saying this ascent is “awesome” and “inspiring” assume that women, all of a sudden, got way stronger?
I’m pretty sure every single person on this site understands that progress, in any sport, is slow and inevitable. Does this mean we shouldn’t celebrate when individuals hit milestones that had proven previously intractable? When the first person ran a 5-minute mile, did everyone say, “Hey now! Let’s not get too excited! In a few years, some guy will easily break 4 minutes!”
Again, the only reason you idiots are even talking about this is because Tomoko Ogawa is a woman. When Ondra climbed “The Change” and broke into the 9b+ grade a couple of weeks ago, everyone was pissing themselves with excitement. Guess what? He spent 30-40 days on his project, as well. Hm.
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Look at the language in the comments “brilliant,” “amazing,” you yourself called V14 ” INSANELY difficult.” (emphasis yours) If all people were saying was that they found the send inspiring, or were just celebrating a cool send there would be nothing more to add.
The fact that she is a woman has nothing to do with my comments. As for Ondra repointing 5.15c, it is exactly what his consistent on-sight level and and fast redpoint level suggest his redpoint limit should be. If its inspiring to a lot of folks, great! But for him as an individual athlete, its exactly the level he should be climbing at this point in time.
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First, I feel like you are being kind of dismissive of a pretty huge achievement. This is big news and substantially raises the bar for all boulderers, and I think you should just come off your high horse and acknowledge it, but I wont hold my breath. Second, I understand that you have seen the gradual elevation of climbing standards, but I feel like real V14 or 8B+, or whatever you want to call it, remains the domain of the gifted and determined, not the merely determined. We’ve had the grade for a little over a decade, and we are still only consolidating the next grade up. I think that debating the finer details of this point is better left to people who are climbing the grades, and that certainly points to my exit from this discussion. Props to Tomoko!!
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OK Douglas. So Ondra spending 30+ days on his route is OK. Tomoko spending 30+ days on her problem is not. Got it.
I would go on, but joey summed up this conversation already.
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Maybe we should also take into account a different approach to bouldering by culture.
When bouldering in Japan it is not uncommon to see a guy, who was just struggeling to send a 6A, being stuck in front of a 7A boulder trying it many times.
It might be a very western view (expressed by Douglas) that your peak performance in terms of grades should be consistent with your on-sight or flash level.
Anyway, great send by Tomoko!
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So isn’t it totally amazing that Ogawa climbed the V14 because for her it must have been insanely difficult as her redpoint limit was well below V14? Don’t you think she has other problems that are in the V12/13 range, much closer to the grade that you suggest she should be climbing as well? I think it’s totally brilliant and even better as it happens to the hardest boulder grade to be climbed by a female climber.
Perhaps Ondra should have spent less time on his 5.15c as the climb was much closer to his limit. Compared to Ogawa’s case anyway. Perhaps both of them should read your book ‘Redpoint’ so that they don’t make the same basic mistakes again – selecting a project too difficult to achieve or spending too much time on a project that can otherwise be climbed in a shorter period of time.
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Also like to add…30-40 days of effort over 3 years isn’t exactly that concentrated. 13 days a year, at most. 3 times a week for one month, where she probably tried some other stuff on those days as well.
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Doug’s comments, to me at least, suggest that the only sport he has every known anything about is climbing and further, he has an ounce of knowledge and a pound of grand, sweeping opinions.
I mean, look at any other sport. Were Babe Ruth’s exploits any less brilliant, noteworthy, mindblowing, or a million other positive adjectives because he was merely doing the inevitable in a steady upward progression of power-hitting? Were all those home runs suddenly not so important when Hank Aaron was far stronger, and were they both made less brilliant by Barry Bonds?
You judge athletic performance by someone’s contemporaries and if you knew anything about sports history, you’d know that. She lives in a time where no other women are sending v14, but she has the vision and the dedication to attempt and accomplish the extraordinary. Could other women do it? Maybe. Have any? No. They may lack the vision or the patience to push the sport forward, but luckily they have Ogawa go out there and crush another glass ceiling. Maybe in a few years, the standard of v14 for women will be the norm and women other than Ogawa will be the ones sending it consistently, but to guarantee women will be flashing the grade in a few years is purely speculative and proves to me what I suspected from the Sean McColl comments, you are nothing more than a quack. You may honestly believe what you say, but given the amount of expertise and knowledge you claim to have, you shouldn’t make such hypothetical unqualified statements if you want to be taken seriously.
Like I said before, an ounce of knowledge, a pound of opinions. Maybe when you coach someone, since you seem to be the only one who knows anything about effective training and what milestones in climbing are meaningful, to hit a new grade for the sport you can start to strut around like you screwed the prom queen (or better yet publish scientific papers with empirical results, rather than another dime a dozen climbing training book and unqualified opinions on the net). I honestly don’t understand how someone could even suggest being the first woman to climb a new grade isn’t a milestone, especially on such a savage, machismo boulder.
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Thanks Jackie, I should have done some research prior to that statement. Again, love the dedication.
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Thanks for mansplaining everything Douglas. Now I know whose blogs/books to steer clear of.
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