Chuck Fryberger has a nice update on his blog about a trip he took to West Virginia’s New River Gorge to get some footage for his upcoming movie, The Scene. He was there to follow Pat Goodman and Matt Wilder as they tested themselves physically and mentally on a few headpoint-style trad routes. The pair didn’t disappoint as Wilder did the second ascent of Goodman’s Fitzcarraldo (5.13b) and did the FA of The Golden Bullet (5.13d), while Goodman did the FA of The Scavenger (5.13c).
Check out Fryberger’s blog for the full story and more screen caps like the ones below.
Pat Goodman on The Scavenger
Matt Wilder on The Golden Bullet
And yes, despite having to rap down into the trees with a 30+ lb. camera Fryberger did shoot some of this footage using his Red One camera…
The bad thing about the reporting/filming of these type of “headpoint” routes is, invariably, little or no mention/coverage of the extent of top-rope practice is ever made. Dave Macleod set a good standard for reporting these types of routes, when he mentioned in his video that he had Rhapsody so wired he did it 3 times in a row on TR before he finally led it, a detail the Climbing Mag article about the ascent left out…I admire this style of climbing, but leaving out details about how much TR practice was employed, when that practice was essential to what is being reported, doesn’t seem too honest.
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In general I agree but in this case don’t you think Chuck is pretty forthcoming about the amount of rehearsal when he says they spent “a couple days each rehearsing the moves for their projects on top rope”?
Although, if I didn’t know better I’d say that said top rope was photoshopped out of the still of Wilder “working the upper crux on his project”
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Hey guys,
Thanks for the write-up Narc. Yes, the routes were practiced on TR prior to attempts on lead, though as I recall neither of the athletes had managed to do the routes without falling prior to their lead attempts.
The video grab on my blog with the ‘photoshopped’ TR is actually due to motion blur. You can see the rope… It’s the maroon streak. As luck would have it, the rope was moving while Matt was still. We shoot pretty wide shutter angles for motion, so there’s a lot more blur than when shooting for stills.
🙂 Chuck
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Ahh, I stand corrected then
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those lines look beautiful!!
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Chuck – I know we’re far away from the final cut, but will you be including TR footage in the finished product?
-c
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Yes, I plan to include enough of the TR footage to accurately document the real events. Seeing these guys fall over and over again on TR makes the FA *more* impressive, not less.
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I guess I just don’t get the fuss over the top rope rehearsals. I think top-rope and dangerous trad kind of go hand in hand. You can’t expect most climbers to put up dangerous close to their limit trad ascents ground up.
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For the sake of argument couldn’t you say that “back in the day” guys were putting up trad routes at their limit with no rehearsal whatsoever?
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Who cares how many attempts they put in, probably a crap load. For God’s sake, 13+ climbing with decking potential is no joke or stroll in the park for even the elite athletes. What’s more important here is the fact that this isn’t trad climbing, instead it’s an overglorified game that in my opinion is foolish and shouldn’t be given as much hype or publicity in the media. But to each it’s own. I, for one, am much more impressed (and believe it shows elite level more accurately) by Pat’s onsight solo of Scenic Cruise. Holy shit, I’ve done that route and NO WAY would I be up there without a rope and pro but that just shows his skill and level of experience. Whatever, mindless rants on the interwasteland while at work, is brilliant.
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I think you make some valid points. For me personally I’ve never really found the headpoint game “worth it” per se but everyone is different.
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I somewhat agree on the headpointing not being worth it. When I did flake route I had done it on TR, and it felt easy. Then, when I led it, it almost felt like I was just running laps.
Still glad I led it though…
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Flake route … definitely on my list of things to do at the lake, but I’m also pretty sure I’m not willing to go for it onsight, so headpoint I shall.
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I guess when it comes to headpointing you have to fully commit to it. I half-assed the headpoint preparations before I lead Flakes and the actual lead could definitely have gone smoother and included more than 2 pieces of pro that would hold a fall…
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Really, we care about whether they did it on top rope. Well then we should also start reporting how much booze, bud, and sleep and climber has had as well.
Should not the accomplishment of the route be impressive.
Let’s not split hairs, they both climbed a great route.
I hope that chuck has gotten more southern climbing clips in his vids to come!
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This is what’s cool about the Internet and the Narc’s site in particular: we can see the athlete or filmmaker actually weigh in with firsthand knowledge. Thanks, both!
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Headpointing is cool, it is basically the same thing as bouldering with gear if you think about it. How many hundred times do those guys and gals work the piss out of a hard problem until they send? And I guess some people enjoy seeing a few dozen failures on the vids so they know how hard it really is? Basically the same thing for a headpoint, except that if you fall on those things you get to die, hence the toprope rehearsal.
Regarding the hard rad sends back in the day… it seems to be assumed that they were all done ground up onsight. Sure, maybe some of it… but far from all. Take a place like Joshua Tree, where FAs sometime list 4,5 or 6 names. What does that mean? It means they yo yoed it, or toproped it.
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Think about your hardest trad lead…now think how hard it would have been had you spent days top-roping/hang-dogging it first…basically you take so much of the “tradness” out of it by doing that, it’s more of a sport climb than a trad route, after you’ve top-roped it who really cares what you do
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Who really cares what you do? The answer is like 4 guys. Really, the truth is that no one really cares what you do, whether you onsight or top rope. Once you figure that out you may find yourself enjoying climbing more. Take a minute and think about it… no one cares what you climbed or how you climbed it.
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Sorry, gotta protect the psycho tradsters out there. I hate to jump in the fray, but the scenario you presented isn’t entirely fair…
think about your hardest sport climb, now think about how hard it would have been had you spend days top-roping/hang-dogging it first… basically you take the lead out of it. after you’ve rehearsed it nobody cares, right? why bother with it?
hear no beta, see no beta, speak no beta, climb onsight.
Wait a tick! It’s not over! remove bolts from that climb until you have at-the-crux deck potential. Now try going to onsight it. It’s considerably scarier now isn’t it? “Hardest ever” means you’re going to fall working it out and learning the sequence. A lot. At least on sport you have a pretty good idea that your protection is BOMBER.
Now take what few bolts are left in the scenario and replace them with wires, cams, or what have you. Not such a certain thing any more now is it? Lets see you onsight that. Don’t forget you have to figure out how to fiddle in the right piece at the right moment onsight. That’s going to cause a lot of palm-sweating if you’re unsure higher up.
It makes about as much sense as an onsight-at-your-limit-free-solo. And it would probably be just as fatal.
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Let’s all keep one thing in mind: I know Pat personally and have climbed with him extensively. He does not give a shit if anyone ever heard about his Scavenger project. He would have done it anyway because that is what drives him. I’ve been witness to Pat working on that project for nearly 3 years, on toprope. The culmination of that effort being a lead ascent that just coincidently happened to be while Chuck was in town filming. fortunate for us! Pat has, in private, expressed his distaste for the way climbing media is presented. You’ll note that he did not directly attach an R or an X rating to his route although either may be appropriate. He also had always thought the route to be 13d but chose to go with C to be on the safe side. Not the fluffy, impress the sponsor side. Before trashing Pat and his style ask yourself how you would have approached a route of such beauty and difficulty. Ground up? I speculate that there is no one in the world right now that could have sent that route ground up without serious injury. Add bolts? Well, not that Pat would have wanted to, but bolting is illegal in the NRG without a 50 dollar application, possible refusal, and a ton of red tape. So post up and say how he ‘should have done it’.
the route is what it is, period. that’s it. If anyone is to blame for ‘fluffing’ trad ascents it is the media like Narc and myself at DPM. I personally am very impressed by Pat’s (and Wilder’s) ascents. That said, I’m psyched to drop a TR on Golden Bullet but doubt that I will ever be willing to invest the time, effort, and possible injury that Pat did on Scavenger. That route is the real deal as I’m sure that will be reflected in the video.
And lastly, yes there was a ton of rehearsal for Pat. Why do we applaud Sharma’s ‘extensive rehearsal’ on Jumbo Love but then trash a person’s ‘extensive rehearsal’ on a gear protected route? What keeps you off the ground when you fall means very little. There is too much emphasis on the difference between sport and trad and not enough emphasis on the similarity. It’s all climbing!
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Speaking from the Head Point Capital of the Americas at Devils Lake, WI I would like to point out that head pointing is just a necessary evil. I would love to ground up or on-sight hard 5.13 but sometimes it’s just a bad fucking idea!
“More of a sport climb after you’ve top roped it”?, polaropposite, obviously you’ve never led much at DL, cause when you are looking at deck potential over a few brassies stuffed in a flaring seam you would probably suck Jaba The Hut’s dick for a bolt.
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Good to see new routes going up at the NRG. It’s my home crag and many consider it to be tapped out. This is sick!
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“…“More of a sport climb after you’ve top roped it”?, polaropposite, obviously you’ve never led much at DL.”
What I said was, “more of a sport route than a trad route after you’ve top-roped it”, good job trying to change what I said to fit your argument. You use sport climbing tactics to dial the moves and gear, you’ve basically turned it into more of a sport climb than a trad climb.
“think about your hardest sport climb, now think about how hard it would have been had you spend days top-roping/hang-dogging it first… basically you take the lead out of it. after you’ve rehearsed it nobody cares, right? why bother with it?”
Exactly. After you’ve rehearsed it, it deserves no more mention than if you’d redpointed a sport route.
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Obviously you can’t read either, polaropposite. How is the statement “More of a sport climb after you’ve top roped it” any different from “more of a sport route than a trad route after you’ve top-roped it”. The “trad climb” part is most definitely implied. But this is semantics.
Try to wrap your tiny little brain around this: Imagine two identical climbs, one with bolts and the other with small micro wires spread few and far in between. Which is “harder”? Duh, the trad route, cause you have to pause and place gear and falling on it not an option.
The head point certainly makes this process easier but it’s still a trad route and just because you practice something over and over doesn’t mean it’s going to go perfectly on lead.
Sometimes we all have to make sacrifices to the perfect style to advance our skills in general, like placing bolts for example, and as long as you are honest about your style then there is no foul.
These headpoints are news worthy because they have not been led before and I’m thinking many of us wouldn’t be able to lead them anyway, headpoint or not.
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