As a follow-up to last week’s entry about Team America’s exploits in the British gritstone, here are are a series of videos first posted on UKClimbing.com. They feature Alex Honnold, Kevin Jorgeson and Matt Segal repeating several gritstone testpieces.
Kevin Jorgeson & Alex Honnold sending The Promise
The Promise from UKClimbing.com TV on Vimeo.
Kevin Jorgeson ground up on Parthian Shot
Parthian Shot from UKClimbing.com TV on Vimeo.
Matt Segal, Alex Honnold & Kevin Jorgeson climbing End Of The Affair
The End of the Affair from UKClimbing.com TV on Vimeo.
are the yanks going to catch hell for having pre-placed gear? in any event, the climbing on “the promise” looks classic… if only it had a flat grassy landing so it could just be a dope highball rather than a lead.
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Can anyone tell me where to find the band (B-Minus) that did the music for “The Promise” clip?
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Couple of things……
The Promise: Why place the piece then down climb? Didn’t look like that was cruxy right there. That’s a pink point. Apparently it’s VERY hard, very nice send but placing the gear on lead would have one-uped the FA.
Parthian Shot: Ground up? Has was on top rope through the gear with a safe whipper. Seb FA’d this Headpoint and proper, yes, pink point, but at least he clipped the gear.
End Of The Affair: Couldn’t tell ,what the gear pre-placed? But definitely death fall, impressive.
There are Brits downing beers and laughing at our expense right now. If a yank is going to go over there, take video and put on a show they ought to at least match if not one-up the FA. Otherwise pat yourself on the back and keep it private.
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I can’t edit posts for some reason…..
The negative comment at the bottom of the post, on the above, was for Parthian Shot. Otherwise, great sends.
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i belive the gear on Parthian was preplaced and clipped the first time up but then was left clipped – ground up with the gear clipped is an improvement in style from the usual headpoint ascent – especially as the crux is at the top.
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It’s all just one big pissing match, right?
Completely badass that KJ did it ground up. Sounds like there were a couple others going for it that way, which is awesome. It’s more about progression than “one-uping” the FA. Way more impressed that he did it that way and could personally care less about whether or not he clipped what pro where.
Cool to see the vids Narc. And I side with Sock Hands and vote that we take a bulldozer to the base and flatten that thing into a nice grassy knoll for highballing awesomeness.
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it seems that KJ would prefer to send this stuff as a highball or what i call a deathball anyway. bulldoze! it will even provide more grass for sheep and such. or whatever. win-win.
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Lets start with the best style we can think of:
On Sight Solo. No gear.
What’s the next best thing?
From the bottom a man or woman leads up placing the gear on lead. Right?
Seb TR’d the route and rehearsed it, pre-placed the gear, but was never on top rope when he actually led it. (Steve just informed me that Seb was on TR until the traverse in HardGrit making my argument lose some water but he was soloing for a few moments if I recall correctly.) I think this is closer to the best style possible then TRing half the route (Unless Kevin downclimbed from placing pro?), even if the crux is at the top. Seb’s danger factor was much higher since he could have decked hard in his moments of soloing but Kevin was on TR there and his risk was not as high because the fall at the crux was clean.
Splitting hairs I know but if someone is going to claim a “first” I think anyone has the right to scrutinize the style.
The next step would be for someone to do it placing the gear on lead with headpointing style, then the final step would be to do it “ground up” while placing gear and if someone falls they have to take the gear out and try again.
Steve, you’re right “Progression” is a better word. I think the progression should hinge on “Which style made this more impressive?” “Impressive” hard to define perhaps?
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Rhoads – placing gear on lead and then down climbing is still considered a redpoint/onsight, as long as you never rest on use the gear. You placed the gear on lead. Same thing if you were to make a move 50′ up, place a piece, and then step down to a stance. Surely all of us have done this a ton of times. Also, those two guys place the gear with the left hand on a certain hold, down climb, and then use that hold with the right hand instead on the send – totally different sequence.
I think with Parthian Shot is it was done ground-up, with pre-placed gear, but he worked it out as he went up and I believe fell a number of times. Still ground-up – but deserves the caveat with pre-placed gear, and probably yo-yo, too.
EOTA – the gear is right off the ground, easy to place and step down, nothing is placed after that. The gear is only used cuz your belayer jumping off a ledge may keep you off the ground for some moves.
And from what I have heard/read the Brits are much more dumbstruck by how these guys raged on the grit and downgraded everything as they went. Didn’t one of these guys flash EOTA?
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Yes, Alex Honnold flashed EOTA.
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Huston, agreed on the down climbing. But for PS to be a true ground up he would have had to pull the rope off the gear and start from the bottom again with a pink point. TWO STYLE POINT DEDUCTION with the yo-yo and pink point! Putting it below a headpoint pink point.
I am preparing a manifesto on ethics and I will post it somewhere soon, should be a riot!
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The Climber’s Manifesto. I like it. I’ve only run into two other climbing manifesto, one on gradeless climbing and one on urban climbing. Make sure you print up a couple of nicely bound copies for some good bathroom reading.
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by bathroom reading do you mean you’ll be wiping your ass with it? please clarify…
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Now, now fellas. Let’s try to keep things positive!
Rhoads, if your manifesto is not overly inflammatory I would consider posting it here if you are interested. I promise not to have anybody’s parents calling to complain about it…
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hahaha love it
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Oh man. I forgot about that routesetter.com thing a while back.
ahh, the memories…
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what happend on routesetter.com?
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NICE recall Steve. Not to rehash hold news…but…
http://www.routesetter.com/2007/04/12/ah-yes-climbing-in-the-midwest/
http://www.routesetter.com/forum/1/topic-45/
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No no, the “Manifesto” will not be totally in your face like a lot of my things but I don’t think I can help it not being inflammatory. It seems I see things a bit differently. So, yes not “overly inflammatory”.
I can send the original routesetter.com article to anyone who wants it. I also have the whole story of the deal and the aftermath. Funny stuff!!!
Email me.
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Hey now sweats, I def. have respect for all you guys, and that foul language was not necessary. Hahaha. I just get my best reading done in the bathroom. No harm no foul. Interesting routesetter deal though. Ever consider a career in argumentative/persuasive writing Rhoads?
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Rhoads PS starts up an HVS crack that takes gear – in Hard Grit Seb had gear in this and a side runner to the left to stop him from swinging into the sidewall on the traverse. He had this gear on two separate ropes which he unclipped when he got to the gear in the flake and had clipped this gear into a third rope, so at no point was he ‘soloing’.
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Ok, I could have sworn at one point he was soloing…..I’ll take another look!
Question: True or False? For my research on ethics……
I think we can all agree on one thing: The best style or ethic in climbing is to “on-sight” solo a climb with no rope or protection.
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I would call that the purest of all styles and the purest send possible. I wouldn’t say it is the best, because personally, my capabilities do not allow me to do that safely, but I would still vote True, because it is the purest in my opinion.
Sorry for the long explanation, but I figure the nature of the question warranted clarification on my part.
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As for the first vid, the promise, Personally I think it’s not worth arguing over. How about those moves on that climb? Fantastic!
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Rhoads: Have you ever been on Parthian Shot? Clipping the gear behind the flake is the least of your worries. Leading the start (which I did before) is casual. Three of the four wires either ripped or fell out (due to the expanding nature of the flake) on various occasions while working the route and a fall from the precarious upper slab crux would result in a ground fall for sure. The fact is, I never rehearsed the route and had no idea what those upper moves were going to feel like. I was very straight forward with the style in which I made my ascent and I suggest you read it before criticizing while uninformed: http://www.kevinjorgeson.com/Travels.pdf
Also, ground up is ground up, regardless of whether or not the rope was pre-clipped. The question is not what gear is clipped, it is where you choose to try the route from: a top rope or the ground. I never claimed the style of this ascent to be perfect, but if nothing else, an improvement upon previous ascents. The flake is still there….The conditions at Burbage South are primo right now….A ground up onsight awaits….
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I second Blacksun. Thanks Kevin for your great work, no matter how it was done, it was a climb, and a good send. I know I speak for a lot of younger climbers when I say, seeing any of you guys climb really gives us motivation, and not many of us care how long a good send is done, but just appreciate getting to see it.
Good article, good discussion, good update. Thanks.
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I agree with Mark and Blacksun.
Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts Kevin!
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An interesting new development: http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1499
This might answer Rhoads’ question about why the climbers didn’t place the gear on The Promise on lead.
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kevin: how do you feel about the idea of bulldozing the landing flat and doing it as a boulder problem? in my ethical manifesto, this will be the purest form of climbing, right after flooding everything to allow for deep water solo climbing at all cliffs in america.
in an event, i’m glad you’re marching through grit so quickly so we can get back to media of your bouldering deathball problems instead of all these funky cords and junk all over the place.
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sock hands: when it rains, it pours, right?
i must say, it’s good to be home and psyche has never been higher for projects that have long lingered in the back of my mind.
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Kevin, I have not been on PS.
-If the bottom is casual why was it not led on the send?
-I respectfully disagree that “ground up” is the true name of that style when the rope is clipped in.
-In the Hard Grit (and your video? or is that from HG?) there is a fall from the upper-lower slab crux and Seb (and you?) ends up well off the ground while also pulling the climber up in the air. Doesn’t look like a ground fall possibility. But I wasn’t there……
-I have obviously not seen the flake but if it’s that fragile (I read your trip report) I would have defected to the Headpoint at first. Best not risk breaking it? But….I wasn’t there. Hard call for sure.
Here’s my point:
My personal convictions are that if I can’t put the gear in on lead I won’t do the route until I can. That way no one can give me any crap!
Nothing personal Kevin, just consider this a challenge to motivate you further and next time you get on PS place the gear on lead and stuff it in the face of people like me. I have lots of good leads for you at Devils Lake, WI if you like this kind of stuff! A free bedroom too. Winter isn’t a good time though without the ice axes 🙂
Cannud, placing the gear on lead on The Promise and then down climbing is perfectly legit but it would have been cooler if he did kept going. That’s a no hands rest!
TimS, sorry I still have not re-checked Hard Grit for the soloing. Soon!
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I just watched Hard Grit again. Seb is DEFINITELY above his gear while clipping the flake. There is one rope to his right that has gear in the crack and one rope to his left down to another belayer. It looks like his plan was to fall on the right hand rope while the left hand rope kept him from swinging into the right hand wall. So, no soloing, but definitly not on top rope.
I have sent Narc a rough copy of my “manifesto”. Just off the top of my head but it ought to get us started. Sweaty, you may print it out and wipe with it if you like but watch out for the papercuts, they’re a BITCH!
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