After a nice trip to Sweden Daniel Woods made his way to Austria and got to work on a couple of Bernd Zangerl testpieces in the mountains of Silvretta. In short order Woods managed to repeat both Memento (7th ascent) and Anam Cara (4th ascent) suggesting V13 for the former and V14 for the latter. If I’m not mistaken Zangerl had suggested upwards of V16 for both problems after their respective FAs although problems featuring a dyno like that in Memento are notoriously hard to grade.
Here are a few videos of the two problems to give you a better idea what they look like:
Bernd Zangerl on Memento
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fb1Lhk4Asw&w=540]
Bernhard Schwaiger climbing Anam Cara
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIJtOfPp2jQ&w=540]
Korni Obleitner climbing Anam Cara
In registering the ascents on his 8a scorecard Woods had this to say about Memento:
1 day asc. Really nice climbing (pretty much a ladder of incut crimps) to a freak dyno move. This one is hard to grade since it all comes down to the jump. At first it felt impossible, then you find the trick and can do it on command. Thanks to Bernd Zangerl for opening up this amazing area and establishing this and Anam Cara.
About Anam Cara he had this to say:
4th asc. tried 2 days ago and came close, but with todays exceptional weather… the boulder went fast. An amazing pitbull of a problem with 4 intense moves revolving around a heinous undercling. The Fall season has begun
While the grades of problems like these are always up for debate, I think it is important to give credit to Zangerl for the vision to open these difficult lines in the first place. And not to get debate/Jens on everyone, but since the percentage of proposed V16s to get downgraded is basically 100% shouldn’t any future suggestions of such a grade be taken with a huge grain of salt?
Update: Woods’ wife Courtney Sanders was also doing work at Silvretta completing her first V11 Niviuk
Yeah, I think people are going to be more hesitant to give the grade V16 after Daniel goes and downgrades them all. I like that Daniel seems to have agreed that the game is V15 after Carlo finished it up. I sometimes wonder if Dai has some ascents that nobody will ever touch that could be V16, specifically Hydrangea. And maybe Livin Large could hold the grade of V16, but doesn’t really matter as V15 is outrageous anyway. Maybe Gioia . . . (5 consecutive vowels, what?)
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The Game was chipped allowing a new (Carlo’s) sequence. The Game might well have been V16 when Daniel did it the first time, but it’s not anymore.
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Not to be a grammar Nazi, but isn’t Gioia 4 vowels??? 😉 I don’t think Livin Large was graded V16 either, I believe Nalle gave it 8C, also this doesn’t matter to me as I flail on V7 anyways!
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Haha, you’re right, I can’t count, been studying wayyyy too long. Yeah, I was saying that if Nalle had graded Livin Large 8C+ I could see it sticking, but 8C is insane anyway, so whatevs.
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Most of the proposed hard problems–that is, V15 or V16–have been downgraded, just like Narc mentioned above. In Daniel’s case, more than half of his proposed hard FAs, which are Jade, Ode to the Modern Man, and The Game, have been downgraded by one or more repeater(s). What I am trying to say is that grades are subjective and what is hard for one person might feel “easy” for another.
Regarding Aaron’s question about unrepeated hard problems in Japan, I know at least ten (10) proposed V15/V16s by Dai that are still waiting to be repeated. Hopefully, Paul Robinson will get a change to try some of them when he will head to Japan in the near future.
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One thing to Note about The Game, several holds have changed since the first ascent, and according to Daniel’s 8a, it changes the beta significantly making it “a different boulder problem”. Based on his thoughts on it, its hard to call it a real downgrade, more of a change in the problem…
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This is a good point and has been a comment about the tiny crimp on Jade as well. Interesting approach by Daniel is that he has a tendency to change the grades on his 8a card (at least for these high-profile boulders) to agree with later ascents. As in, he has The Game listed at V15 and Jade at V14.
Also, @google-b247638fc73dc70b395b121b9015bb64:disqus , not that Paul is incapable, but Daniel might have the best shot at some of Dai’s problems just based on size/personal climbing styles. It would be interesting to see how both Daniel and Paul fair on these problems.
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It’s also worth noting that Daniel is not the first person to suggest downgrades for these problems. I believe Obleitner’s hardest send was something like V12 when he first did Anam Cara.
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The rampant downgrades are a byproduct of the rampant grade inflation.
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Eh, not really true. Fred Nicole apparently over-reached when he called Dreamtime V15, like ten years ago. After Dreamtime was repeated by many climbers and found to not really be worthy of V15, boulderers have been trying to get a handle on what V15 really means, and what V16 would mean once it is firmly established. If Dreamtime is V14 or V14+, and has been climbed by many people, it seems very reasonable that some of the lesser-climbed hard boulders in the world may well be V15 or even V16. The only people really capable of even understanding what these grades mean, in terms of difficulty, are the people making the ascents. It comes down to a boulderer’s own experience and grading philosophy, as to whether he gives a new hard problem V15 or V16. In the end, it doesn’t really matter if Jade gets downgraded from V15 or upgraded from V13 – the original grade is just the singular opinion of the first ascentionist, and as such is subject to verification by others.
Say you boulder at around a V7 level, but have done a few V8s. You’ve got a personal boulder project you’ve been working for months, and it totally feels like the hardest thing you’ve ever done, by far. When you finally send it, would you hesitate to give it a V8 grade, if you honestly thought that it was V8? If five other people come along and send your project and call it V6, would you accept that you, yourself, are part of a trend of “rampant grade inflation”? This is all that’s happening at the cutting edge of bouldering – climbers giving their honest opinions on their own projects. Because of this trend of downgrading rather than accepting harder grades, first ascentionists have become extremely hesitant to label anything V16, for fear of being downgraded. Paul Robinson even preemptively downgraded Lucid Dreaming, before it has even seen a second ascent. He has climbed many V15s, and worked on Lucid Dreaming for years before he sent it, calling it “a new level in bouldering.” Yet he is still uncomfortable with calling it V16.
There aren’t many V15 problems that have seen many repeat ascents. As such, V15 and V16 are sort of equivalent to John Gill’s B3 grade, defining a project whose grade lacks definition due to a lack of any possible consensus. The Island, The Story of Two Worlds, Livin Large, Lucid Dreaming, Akira, Gioia, From Dirt Grows The Flowers, and other V15s are all totally different climbs that may prove easier or harder than they seemed to the first few ascentionists. I wouldn’t ever accuse somebody of purposefully inflating the grade of their projects, especially when they haven’t even seen many repeat ascents yet. At any rate, these climbs will eventually get climbed by more people, and a grade will be agreed upon. It is heartening to hear of more and more new V15s in the news, as it means that we are moving towards really defining that grade, and a frame of reference that will allow 16 to have more meaning.
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You make some good points there but I would personally respond by keeping grades of stuff I do heavy. There is nothing wrong with good stiff grades, unless you’re some kind of sponsored guy and you are under pressure to produce the latest and greatest.
I’m glad you mentioned Fred Nicole though. I think his exploits in the US alone should put bouldering progression of the last 15 years in perspective. Didn’t he put up v14 in Hueco in like 94? So 17 years has bumped us one grade? I’d say that nothing has changed since then except that bouldering has gotten much more popular and as a result we have produced more strong boulderers. But the top end of difficulty has not changed much.
We are really looking at the first generation of boulderers, so it isn’t surprising that they are making all these hard FAs and grades are still in a little bit of flux. Add in the difference in styles of climber and problem, and you’re going to see issues. Just look at ‘normal’ climbing. You’ve got overhangs, thin vert, slab, OW and crack, all running the same scale. Very few climbers climb at the same standard in all those disciplines, and it’s been said that slab harder than 13a has never even been done.
There will always be grade disputes. If that discourages people from claiming too high a grade after a FA, I say that is a good thing.
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in response to the ” it’s been said that slab harder than 13a has never even been done.”:
http://vimeo.com/4324776
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Mind boggling how that is even possible
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That is a good point of perspective with Fred Nicole. I do think something else to note though is that Woods is 22 years old and Robinson is 24. Both of these guys have HUGE tick lists, and if Dai and Schwaiger are anything to go by, they both have years of sends ahead of them. Based on Daniel’s current sending spree it seems he is well on his way to finishing off a rather large chunk of every v14 and v15 currently established. Granted, there are a remarkable number of problems at these grades, but still. It is probably just a matter of time before he starts putting down projects instead of just repeats (more similar to Daniel’s contributions of Jade, the Game and the unrepeated Veritas line, but instead on a more international scale). The excitement of the high profile climbing world is just beginning. And this is just on the bouldering front; Ondra is paralleling Daniel in the route world, but at an even younger age (and sometimes seemingly faster pace). So psyched.
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Speaking of new V15s, Ondra just established one the other day.
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Who??? 🙂
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I am wondering if Daniel will try any of the Schwaiger bros problems. Bernhard at least has more V15s on his scorecard than Daniel even, but the majority are in one region in Austria.
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That would definitely be interesting since the Schwaiger problems don’t seem to have been tried by many other than those 2
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Totally off subject. But when Heuco tanks was mentioned it got me thinking. Has anyone repeated “The Land Before Time” from Dosage4 besides Dave & Chris? I always thought that problem looked fucking amazing.
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Not that I’ve read anywhere but that certainly doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened
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In general, it seems like Japan and Austria will turn in to future hotspots like Rocklands currently is and Magic Wood was (not that it still isn’t.) There are (were before recent downgrades) close to a dozen, if not more, V15 (speculated) or harder problems in these areas and Paul and Daniel are beginning to unveil these problems to the world.
It just sucks there is so much potential in the world but so much distance between everything leading to all too little time.
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And by “unveil” I mean bring them to a more mainstream audience.
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