Interesting thoughts from Peter Beal in his latest shot across the bow at the current state of affairs in the climbing industry:
To read the offerings in magazines and online is to recognize that there are no prominent outside voices, pun intended, who are willing to rock the boat in any meaningful sense, to call into question the numerous dubious assumptions built into the marketing-focused image of the sport that is achieving dominance today.
Posted In: Asides, Industry
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What does he expect? Capitalism marches onward. Climbing isn’t safe from profitability, and to expect any other outcome would be utterly naive.
I’m not saying it’s not disappointing and frustrating – it is – but the stark reality is that people are motivated by money.
As a tertiary note, I should mention that the aspects of the sport which DON’T fit this paradigm – the humble climbers who climb for themselves, in some cases climbing hard and well and often; the myriad crags, local or otherwise, which are incredibly beautiful, bountiful and untarnished by this supposed sport-wide marketing death march; the companies who make robust, integral gear with only the necessary modicum of media circlejerking; and every REAL day at the crag enjoyed by climbers worldwide which is blissfully ignorant of the digitally omnipresent vacuum of substance – these aspects are not reported on, unrecorded, untweeted, etc. The vocal minority does not an apocalyptic community meltdown make.
The sky isn’t falling – climbing is (and shall ever be) what you make it. If you don’t like the sponsorships and the HD video and the grades and the facebook updates and whatnot, feel free to not participate. It might be harder to get off the grid than it used to be, but it’s still an option. Personally, I take it for what it is: I find the sponsorships and advertising an interesting growing pain of the sport; HD video helps me stay motivated when I’m hurt or sick or working; Grades are meaningful and critical, even if subjective; and social media helps us keep up with the people who inspire us to try harder every day. Take the parts you want and ignore the rest, there’s certainly way too much for everyone to take it all seriously all the time.
I never write that much here. Just my 2 cents.
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Good comment! I think the faith in the market and capitalist values that so many have expressed is not entirely justified in the long term and should be more closely examined, to take one example of issues confronting climbing.
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I’m not saying I have faith in the market. Except maybe faith for it to keep doing what it does best, which is to monetize all audiences of a recognizable size.
I guess what I’m saying is, I’m just as cynical as you – I’ve just adopted the “hands over ears, la la la la” tactic, whereas you have a bit taller of a soapbox and a bit louder of a megaphone and might be able to make a difference 🙂
I also think that sponsorship/money/advertising being a driving factor for the success of new climbers and companies is more of a societal plight, not a community plight, which would require the reversal of years and years of habits to undo..
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Climbing as a sport has grown enough to create a culture including all of the stuff Beal dislikes, but within it contains subcultures with (perhaps) more merit. I would say certain magazines, blogs and media still shine through the otherwise mundane offerings and provide a place for valuable discussion over troll-dom. As this is just about the way the entire world works it’s not a surprise here.
I think Beal’s cynicism is shared by many and will be shared by even more, as climbing as a sport and as a community continues to grow.
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In an unrelated point, I find it weird deciding whether to comment on the blog post about the blog post or on the original post itself. Similarly, do I comment on the posting of the video on DPM/Climbingnarc.com/etc. or on the original video itself on youtube/vimeo?
It is further made confusing as I know that you’ll be reading this, Beal, but still talk of you in 3rd person instead of addressing you directly, despite realizing you’re reading every thing I write. Confusing!
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In this instance I would encourage the conversation to take place over on Peter’s site. Perhaps I will close off comments here for this post…
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No worries Aaron. You can comment on either site. I pay attention to page views but I don’t worry if the CN gets some extra traffic 🙂
There are some great comments at the OP.
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well said. I am not sure about making a difference but to quote Arthur Miller, attention must be paid. I respect the right of companies to make money but the enthusiastic assimilation of a marketing mentality by those outside the actual industry is striking. Inevitable perhaps but striking nevertheless.
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Thanks Peter, fun chatting. I find your ideas interesting and I have subscribed to your newsletter (and/or malicious media-slut marketing machine website, you choose.)
Maybe some day we’ll climb a rock together, and be like, “that woulda been more fun if we had ADIDAS brand climbing shoes.”
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way more fun with those Adidas shoes!
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“Woof woof! Woof woof!” I barked. “Woof! Woof, woof, woof!”
Henry Miller
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Wait..I was busy checking my stats…what did I miss?
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You owe me Brian!
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At first I was going to leave a comment about Mr. Beal just needing to take a break from the climbing scene…then I realized I feel, more or less, the same way. Damn! Maybe some decompression is needed.
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I think I understand where Peter is coming from, but didn’t John Sherman talk about almost this same thing in his book “Sherman Exposed” from over a decade ago. He talked about writing an article and not being allowed to publish because it outed the chipping/glueing/bolting of a media darling. The rag didn’t want to jeopardize the sponsorship/sponsor/advertizing relationship. It’s not a new thing. Perhaps it has gotten worse, but somehow I doubt it.
From a broader perspective, the same thing has been going on with media in general for quite a long time. There’s been a distinct decline the in the research and standards of journalism for the better part of three decades. Why would we expect anything different from the mainstream media? The one thing that has been a ray of hope in this is the explosion in independant blogs who have no stake and are unafraid to take an unpopular stand. Jamie has gotten a huge amount of criticism over the years on B3, and while he’s not always right he has done alot to spur discussion. You and AB are also great blogs that seem to be willing to talk about more difficult/unpopular concepts and ideas.
Personally, I’ve moved to geting almost all of my climbing realted media from blogs (and climbingnarc 🙂 ) and I’ve found that the content seems to be getting better and better over time. Circa 2003-2005, you had the major rags, and 8a. Talk about lack of substance 🙂
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Commercialisable climbing is accessible climbing, and this means, by and large, bouldering and sport climbing, both of which are relatively trivial on the life-or-death level (note that I spend most of my time on these, so this isn’t a slur). The marketers follow the crowds.
Significant commentary about climbing tends to occur when there’s a personal decision to be made that may have serious consequences – to run it out, to go for the summit in iffy conditions, etc. This makes for profound writing, putting it on the line for climbing. You don’t tend to see writing like this outside of Alpinist magazine. That’s probably because it’s tough to market products to the people with whom such writing resonates.
I don’t know what there is left to say about easily commercialisable climbing that hasn’t already been said, although I will say this: the dirtbags and crazy visionaries that populate John Long’s writing are timeless and hilarious. Same with John Sherman.
So maybe one topic that needs to be explored is the humour inherent in dragging one’s bones up rocks, day after day, and the marginal characters that one meets out there. This sort of thing transcends grades and route seriousness, and ignores marketing and product placement altogether.
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Perhaps i misread or misunderstood the article, but Peter says that climbers
“bore and aggravate sponsor-friendly platitudes and forced optimism and enthusiasm.”
Is that really the case? Maybe they really are happy with their shoes, love what they wear and want to share they feel fortunate and are grateful to their sponsor. Seems like a normal thing to do. Are you better than the others?
I see an organic climbing logo, and on the lower right-hand side “stuff you use and recommend” like carhartt jeans, clifbar and paint?!
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Organic is a good example of the kind of company I support. No BS marketing, low-key approach, and a solid product, that I trust explicitly. I have received exactly one pad and a couple of chalk bags from Josh in the past 3 years, gear I have used every time I have gone out bouldering.
The other links I have been too lazy to delete but there is no quid pro quo there. They will be gone shortly.
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So you receive gear from Organic, post their logo as advertisement, and approve of their marketing approach? Trust their product explicitly? How exactly is this any different from a strong climber receiving a product and then approving of the brand by wearing a T-shirt in their vid, spraying their approval all over the community? Seems hypocritical to me. Maybe if you took a better marketing approach, your book wouldn’t be #31 in amazon’s climbing section. Just sayin’
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TC, if you can’t see the difference already, I don’t think I can help you much. But thanks for checking out my book though.
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Peter, Your to-the-point honesty is refreshing and greatly appreciated on this end of the interwebs. Keep it up!
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jf–well said. What we are seeing is capitalism at its finest.
Peter–Although I share your concern about degradation of the purity of the sport, what we are observing to our beloved niche sport is the natural course of growth. Have a problem with the money-driven motives of the athletes/industry? Blame capitalism, nothing else. If you have a problem with capitalism, then I don’t know what to tell you. I hear Cuba is nice these days.
Narc–if you were offered a high-dollar sponsorship for your website, yet were able to retain publishing rights, would you take it?
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It would depend greatly on the company and the terms but I’m not opposed to engaging in a little bit of capitalism of my own
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And I guess thats my point. Although this website doesnt fit into one of Peter’s categorizations of blogs (athlete/lifestyle, news, or viral videos… perhaps all three + whining about injuries?), it is still subject to the lure of money. Just like everything else. Im sure the same would be true of his blog–if someone offered him good money, he would bite.
Love the site Narc
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It would have to be pretty good indeed, in all senses of the word.
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I didn’t read the blog post. I went sport climbing today. There were three other parties there. One asked me about my new rope. One asked me about my draws and my shoes. The third actually talked about routes. Go figure.
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I’ll have to say though, it feels somewhat paradoxical to desire for views – whose inherent value (at least partially) is in the fact that they are not widely broadcast – to be broadcast widely. Those stories about people who climbed for themselves and didn’t publish their achievements; even if it was happening all the time, we wouldn’t hear about it from climbing publishers for the obvious reason. (And of course it IS happening every time any of us go enjoy a day at the crag, unless we choose to advertise it.)
Sure there are subjects that certain media outlets shun away from that could be news, but I don’t think it’s all bad. Consider the Cerro Torre drama from earlier this year. Whether or not it was positive publicity for the companies sponsoring the bolt removers, there was a lot of media attention and talk on many climbing blogs and forums.
Many climbing (short)movies these days are reduced to people being in places climbing things. The equipment may or may not be sponsored, but it’s impossible to tell since everyone uses the same stuff anyway. I’m not really sure what ‘negative publicity’ should be added to the video just for the sake of not getting any (more) sponsors. Typically everyone’s having a really good time, but who isn’t having a good time on a climbing trip??
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It’s official then, climbing is now “main stream”. There are positives and negatives, lets list some!
Positives
-Gear innovation
-More route development
-More power to influence governments for what we want (Think NRA)
-More competition = lower prices for gear?
Negatives
-A watered down concept of what “climbing” is. Dumbed down for the masses.
-More impact on the outdoors.
-Ego, more wannabe somebodys who are nobody.
Any more? Look, business is business and in America we buy the cheapest products possible regardless of where it’s made and how it’s made (generally speaking). Wanna change? Vote with your $, there are plenty of companies out there who don’t exploit anyone or anything. However, you will be in the minority. Better to simply project the image that you deem right and hope for the best.
Frankly, most people are unintelligent, uncreative, and ignorant of the world around them and when something becomes “mainstream” there are inevitably more of these people in whatever that something is. At worst I’m simply annoyed by all the crap out there but it’s pretty easy to ignore most of it.
Peter, please be more specific, exactly what changes would you like to see take place?
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This is an interesting strand, so here are a couple of more thoughts on the topic. As a 45 year-old newbie who became completely addicted to climbing from the onset, I not only climbed as often as possible my first year but also read as much as possible. In doing that and observing seasoned climbers, I seem to have picked up on some of the treasured aspects of this path we call rock climbing (e.g. an emphasis on humility, climb for your own pleasure, compete with oneself not others, respect the efforts of those who have paved the path we now tread, show up for trail days, etc.). I believe that because of this (and the inherently good natures of climbers), I have been embraced by the Southeastern climbing community. As a result, I have had several conversations with some of our local leaders on the access and maintenance fronts as to how to preserve a pure climbing ethic as well as our access whilst more and more people flock to the crags and boulder fields. Communicating such a message about the inherently individualized and free pursuit that is climbing seems to require a nuanced approach (i.e. How do you communicate to someone that what she or he is doing is in conflict with the unwritten, yet well-known, ethics of climbing without being a douche-bag and also trying to restrict climbing’s most precious treasure–freedom?). Here is what has worked so far–1. Spend some time climbing with newbies. Most experienced climbers not only don’t do this they even tend to shun those who are just discovering climbing. In short, how else can a new climber learn the do’s and don’t’s without seeing them encouraged or discouraged. 2. Encourage new climbers to read. After two months of climbing, I knew more about Misters Gill, Sherman, Beal, etc. than any of the more experienced climbers with whom I climbed. I’m always disappointed when I quote one of the legends of climbing and younger climbers who I know have climbed for a few to several years respond by saying, “Who is Sherman?” To not even know the name of the creator of the V-grading system on which one is climbing is stunning to me. Anyway, it was through reading the insights, adventures, and rants of the pioneers of our path that I learned much about how to climb and more importantly, how to be a climber. Climbing spans a continuum that runs from ‘just a big kid version of playing on the jungle gym at recess’ to ‘a deeply spiritual quest’. At both ends of this, one needs to be attentive to the fine line between codifying and institutionalizing and the risk of losing the beautiful experience that is spending time in an unspoilt wilderness of stone. Peace <3
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Two great comments from CS and Ron. CS, I think the primary focus of climbing should be on the most sustainable practices that have the least effects on the environment and all media should ultimately have that goal in mind. Outside of the gym, maybe even inside it, climbers and those who provide goods and services to them should be constantly finding ways to limit environmental impacts. For one crazy example, imagine gyms offering discounts to members or guests who don’t drive to their gym.
The other thing I would like to see is more realistic accounts of how climbing affects people. A video that goes there a bit more than most is “A Desert Life” http://vimeo.com/34482694. This an excellent film. However as the film-maker himself relates in his blog, he was not sure the subject of his film was accurately portrayed:
“Now, the rest of this post will make a lot more sense if you watch the video above, but I’ve been thinking a lot recently about what Cowen speaks about in his talk. This idea that the stories we tell ourselves can limit our conception of the world and what we ultimately experience in life.
It started a couple of weeks ago when I was working on A Desert Life, trying to create a narrative that would work for that video. Though I was happy with the final product, I was painfully aware of how much the film left out. I didn’t like that one might watch the video and think that Alf’s life is all sunshines and rainbows, splitters and sun-kissed sage. It seems that he’s deeply depressed at times when he’s out there by himself in the desert. There are a lot of cold and lonely nights when you spend an entire winter in Indian Creek in a crappy old camper. He thinks a lot about whether he wasted his life by just climbing from place to place instead of establishing a career or a family. All of this goes unseen in the film, and I was unhappy that I couldn’t figure out a good way to convey this great conflict going on inside of him. Ultimately I chose to just simplify the narrative. And it worked: 30,000 people from all over the world have watched the film online. ”
Austin Siadak nailed it in that paragraph. Many viewers might see that film and see it as a celebration of Alf Randell’s spirit of independence and the climbing lifestyle but I saw it as a kind of warning to any considering that path. I have talked to many older climbers who echo the same thought about the destructive aspects of climbing. It is too easy to lose the reality beneath a surface of trivial images and words and “A Desert Life” is anything but that.
This segues into Ron’s point. He educated himself about the sport and listened to voices who have seriously thought about climbing and its meaning. Ron’s excellent and insightful comment outlines a path that ideally all climbers would follow, one of better understanding past precedent and tradition and weighing carefully principles and ideas before acting on them. Age has a role in this but so also does curiosity, especially curiosity fostered by meaningful communication from opinion makers and leaders in the sport. Younger climbers, in my view, are distant from this legacy and media should work, to some degree, to overcome this. The alternative is a fictional action-filled present free of consequences or precedent, a marketer’s dream and an environmental and social nightmare.
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Peter: I think you bring up a very important point which actually relates to many sports. We are shown glossy dreamy images of this amazing life at the pinnacle of the sport, but aren’t shown the guys scraping by and having nothing to show for it by age 30 except for a broken body and a destroyed soul. If you’ve seen “Bigger, Stronger, Faster”, I think it shows that the same addictions/decisions apply well beyond just climbing.
Climbing is different in that it is a lifestyle choice, but the addiction to the dream portrayed by aspects of the media is unsustainable and ultimately destructive for most people. I didn’t realize you had done “A Desert Life”, but I thought it captured the consequences of making that lifestyle choice. When you see how/where he lives, how can you not grasp the sacrifice?
Reading this made me think about creating a library at the local gym of books every climber should read. The younger generation is craving sustence to satisfy their curiousity, but they get distracted by the glossy media and videos. They need something more.
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This sums up and reinforces your point brilliantly. I think I understood fairly well before, but what a great perspective this context offers. Thanks Peter!
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Way to bring in the environmental argument in the 11th hour, I had no idea this debate was about what media would be best for the environment- oh wait, it wasn’t until you scrambled around for a last minute argument.
Face it Pete, aside from “the environment”, you have no leg to stand on, you’re just whining about how everyone else should change to fit your standards, not for their sake but for yours. Capitalism blows but at least we don’t have people like you forcing people to consume things they aren’t interested in.
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Way to misread his article. He’s asking for an open discussion to happen about standards, not that everyone need conform to his. This is a part of climbing history(bolts wars, ethics, etc.), and should come into the mainstream.
His point is that there are contentious issues, and ignoring them will not make them go away. There comes a time when everyone shoudl stand up and be counted regardless of which side of the fence you’re on.
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“Capitalism blows but at least we don’t have people like you forcing people to consume things they aren’t interested in.”
That’s pretty naive as a defense of capitalism, since forced consumption is pretty much the lifeblood of capitalism. Good effort sniffing out my agenda though! 🙂
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Todd, the library idea is excellent but, and I am speaking as a teacher and writer, getting the audience actually to read it could be difficult 🙂
Just to clarify I did not make “A Desert Life” Austin Siadak did.
Visit http://vimeo.com/austinsiadak to see his work.
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Thanks for the clarification on “A Desert Life”. I missed the initial quote.
I’m thinking about trying to work with the local climbing coach to try to get the kids to to some reading and figure out some reward system. I’ll let you know if we come up with something worthwhile.
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I would love to hear more. This is a great idea!
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So let me get this stright Peter; The issue here is that no one talks about the negative impact of rock cimbing? If so, it’s one hell of an uphill battle to get people to listen. Why? People don’t want to hear about the negative because it’s not very positive. Get it? We can scream and scream about all of these things and all we will get in return is that the commoners will call us “long winded”, no, no, wait, they will call us…”whiners”. Go try and convince a pack of wolves to give up meat and go vegan and you will get the idea of what you are up againist.
If it floats your boat to scream about it, I encourage that but better would be to get rich and buy the power to change things. That’s how capitalism really works.
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“get rich and buy the power to change things”
The Koch brothers’ strategy? Now why didn’t I think of that before…
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