Comments on: One Less Excuse

By: Ryan

Ryan — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 01:33:37 +0000

Not much good limestone, that’s true (unless you head south of the border); but we’ve got plenty of good sandstone. With a bit of motivation, there’s no shortage of 5.14d possibilities in the Red River Gorge’s Pendergrass-Murray. <-)

By: Paul

Paul — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 05:14:48 +0000

Lots of good points already especially that of climbing being much more mainstream. Something else to consider: unemployment in western Europe has been higher than in the US for the last 30 years (around double US numbers on average), especially among youth. Combined this with the differences in safety nets and it may be much more common to have people dedicate themselves to training.

By: B-Team

B-Team — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 13:33:10 +0000

European Being said it all.

Europe is full of limestone. Every crag I went to in Spain had a slew of 5.14s, and it seems there is always a 9a or 5 that linked them all together.

With in an hour of any crag I went to there where the equivalent of 5 Rifles (bigger and better really).

When I lived in Colorado Rifle was still at least 2 hours from most climbing populations.

Not to mention Texas is also bigger than France.

By: Narc

Narc — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:30:48 +0000

Thanks for sharing that, as jealousy inducing as it may be (at least from a climbing and vacation standpoint). I think point 5 is especially interesting. It seems like most crags in the U.S. are not really family friendly.

By: European being

European being — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:26:35 +0000

I am from Europe: There are climbers (good ones, bad ones, lazy ones, addicted ones etc.) just as in the rest of the world, but I htink there are nevertheless some differences:
1. Lots of developed crags close to the big cities. For example I have around 6000 routes + 2000 boulders within 1 hour driving around my home and there are a lot of better placed areas to live for climbing.
2. Europe is small, so it is easy and cheap to go to other areas.
3. Climbing is really booming. So many new gyms and people who start with climbing.
4. In Europe you have usually 6 weeks paid vacation (small differences in various countries)
5. Most crags are not in wilderness areas therefor easy to go with childs and family to combine climbing with social life

By: Ryan

Ryan — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 20:19:52 +0000

I would have to agree that there are not enough 5.14 grade routes in America compared to Europe, on top of that, they are probably much easier to get too on a daily bases. Take Chris Sharma for instance, he wanted a hard project close to home and he had hike all the way out to the middle of the desert to find one (Jumbo Love). Yes it was a 5.15b and not a 5.14 but I think it shows how are it is to find super difficult climbs in America that are easily approachable. Sharma had to buy an SUV just to get part of the way out to Clark Mountain. And in Europe it’s all about the grade, in America not so much. I would have to say there seems to be many more “casual” climbers here in America. If you’re a climber in Europe your more-than-likely not just a “weekender” who is looking for a little outdoor recreation, you’re a serious hardcore rock climber who is looking to continually push yourself to the next level…..kinda like Chris Sharma, but I can only speculate on this, I have never been to Europe to climb myself so this is only my perception on the difference between European and American rock climbers.

By: Zach

Zach — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:13:31 +0000

I want to hear more about older climbers cranking. I dare someone to climb 5.14 when you are 60 and above. Who cares what some genetically modified kid has climbed? haha.

By: justin

justin — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:15:19 +0000

we’re lazy, i believe that’s the answer

By: arthur

arthur — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:55:55 +0000

I think simple access to good climbing is the problem. To think that europeans are some how more natural at climbing is naive. There are hordes of people all over the world that could crank that hard if they had access to a good gym and the knowledge about how to focus their abilities.

The problem in America is that Boulder, CO is hogging all the good gyms (joking), and crags are few and far between that have .14d potential.

I think the point about work and vacation time is also very appropriate. In my opinion, you’d have to have access to the cash and time involved with constant climbing trips–people either too young to work but having financial help, or climber bums of all ages that either trust fund it or bum it…

Those of us that work a full-time job with 2 weeks vacation have much more difficult time when it comes to pulling down routes of even a modestly difficult grade when so much of your day is maintaining the realities of life. This isn’t even taking into consideration raising a child or that…

2 cents.

By: Joe Wilson

Joe Wilson — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:42:32 +0000

YOU LIE!

By: Paul Campbell

Paul Campbell — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:35:38 +0000

And all the pro climbers keep leaving us and going to Europe!

Make some more hard American First Ascents you slackers!

By: peter b

peter b — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:40:17 +0000

And don’t forget about “socialized” medicine so they don’t have to wonder about insurance if something goes wrong. How many “pro” climbers have that in the USA?

By: Mark

Mark — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:36:44 +0000

I use the “I’m tall excuse”. Believe me. Sit starts are hard when you’re eating your knees and weigh a ton.

By: sock hands

sock hands — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:29:16 +0000

i’m fairly ignorant about spurt roots, but it seems that many of the yankee routes that are ‘hard’ are often in remote locations, widely dispursed from each other, and extremely tweaky compared to the sweeping resistance lines available in europe.

many of the european crags sit just outside the town limits of places that support actual workforces. this makes access so much easier, and makes climbing a part of the culture.

also, aside from cultural difference regarding training and proper behavoir/priorities of being an “adult”, europeans generally enjoy substantially greater free time than americans. in america, two weeks paid vacation is somewhat standard. europoeans often receive SUBSTANTIALLY more paid vacation time. i met a german who does oil changes for a living. his garage affords him 8 weeks of paid vacation.

much easier to meet family visitation obligations and still road trip or project or whatever floats your euro boat.

JEALOUS RAGE!!!!!!!!!!111111111

By: Josh

Josh — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:11:09 +0000

Euros Train, Americans Climb.

By: Julian

Julian — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:28:28 +0000

There’s still one excuse that never fails: “I suck.”

By: Eggbert

Eggbert — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:21:13 +0000

Dammit Narc I didn’t need nor do i want to know this! ce

By: Paul Campbell

Paul Campbell — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:31:56 +0000

In addition to points already mentioned, the U.S. seems to have a stronger traditional climbing scene, and climbing is less focused on sport climbing and hard climbing in general.

In Europe many of the hard routes are “created” where in the U.S. the ethics are much more of a concern.

By: Kevin O

Kevin O — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:23:57 +0000

So many variables could be involved in this observation. A lack of routes at 5.14 grade is a good and logical explanation, but something about that doesn’t cut it for me. Maybe the culture is different in France. I have not had much experience with the European culture, but maybe climbing is thought of differently over there. It may hold a higher level of reputation. Kind of like how the majority of American parents want their kids to grow up living in big homes and landing a big CEO position. Maybe the Europeans aspire their children to become 5.14 climbers. Maybe climbing in general has more respect from the general population over there. Instead of being thought of as a culture of dirty, vagabond hippies, that are a burden to society, much like it is thought of in the US. Who knows really, this is all just a thought of mine.

By: Kate C

Kate C — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:01:19 +0000

Can I still use the excuse “I’m too fat”?

By: Narc

Narc — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:29:27 +0000

That’s probably a big part of it. To get to 3 separate 5.14d’s in America would pretty much require driving across the country.

By: Paul Campbell

Paul Campbell — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:26:50 +0000

I blame it on the crags. Obviously we need more good limestone ^_^

By: peter b

peter b — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 12:44:29 +0000

Interesting question and one to which I received a number of responses when I posted more or less the same thing a week ago.