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	<title>Comments on: A Cautionary Tale About Bad Bolting</title>
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	<link>http://climbingnarc.com/2009/01/cautionary-tale-about-bad-bolting/</link>
	<description>So obsessed with climbing it hurts...</description>
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		<title>By: Dennis</title>
		<link>http://climbingnarc.com/2009/01/cautionary-tale-about-bad-bolting/comment-page-1/#comment-4869</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 22:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climbingnarc.com/?p=2374#comment-4869</guid>
		<description>You are so right, I watched for years guys &#039;fall off&#039; with apparent impunity onto well placed bolts that is, until the umpteenth climber falls onto it for a rest and a &#039;shake-out&#039; and out it comes. These bolters want to try placing some &#039;real protection&#039;. And leave the rock alone...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are so right, I watched for years guys &#8216;fall off&#8217; with apparent impunity onto well placed bolts that is, until the umpteenth climber falls onto it for a rest and a &#8216;shake-out&#8217; and out it comes. These bolters want to try placing some &#8216;real protection&#8217;. And leave the rock alone&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Capt_mulch</title>
		<link>http://climbingnarc.com/2009/01/cautionary-tale-about-bad-bolting/comment-page-1/#comment-4720</link>
		<dc:creator>Capt_mulch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 20:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climbingnarc.com/?p=2374#comment-4720</guid>
		<description>Have a look at the youtube video of Mike Law pulling out the rest of the bolts in the climb. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQt4AbQmJjE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have a look at the youtube video of Mike Law pulling out the rest of the bolts in the climb. </p>
<p><span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://climbingnarc.com/2009/01/cautionary-tale-about-bad-bolting/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/xQt4AbQmJjE/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span></p>
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		<title>By: Volker</title>
		<link>http://climbingnarc.com/2009/01/cautionary-tale-about-bad-bolting/comment-page-1/#comment-4643</link>
		<dc:creator>Volker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 02:42:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climbingnarc.com/?p=2374#comment-4643</guid>
		<description>In the end its bolting that sucks, for the rock and the people. As tragic as this accident is and as shameful as placing a row of improper placed bolts at all, if you climb you accept ALL the risk.

I&#039;m a trad climber and laugh at all these sports guys believing in the safety of bolts. Improperly placed or not, rock becomes loose as well as bolts do. Check what you&#039;re doing. Back up the stuff you do.
Some things you won&#039;t find out until to late. That&#039;s life.

A stone can be bomber for the 2 guys in front of you and rip off size of a truck engine in your hands. Why? Doesn&#039;t matter, generally that is how erosion works. Sent me flying 4m head first following, being a near miss of a definetely fatal neck breaking grounder. Was hard to cope with.

Inspection by the climbers would have shown these bolts to be loose.

In most areas the first bolters have been locals.
That&#039;s history of climbing. Many new routes are opened by visitors, because they try things the locals never thought of.

Leave a warning sign on the bolts? Impossible.
In that sense every bolt outside of a gym has such a sign leaving the factory. They get no regular technical inspections. Acctually it depends on the gym how much they are required to inspect them and how they care for actually doing it.

It&#039;s shiny new? My girl waitnessed a guy in Italy hearing a loud crack, being to late to 3 bolts tying him to a large piece of rock coming of dragging him to death. The bolts didn&#039;t fail.

Don&#039;t look for safety were there is none.
That&#039;s what my sailing teacher taught me.
Good lesson, but people of believing themselves being civilized don&#039;t understand natural life and death responsibility any more.
Go and change views that prove wrong or suffer their consequences.

Storys about improper bolts are frequent.
Sad fact is somebodys got to get hurt before people find out.

In the end that won&#039;t stop people from climbing.
The ones that quit their dangerous addiction to it are the lucky ones.

This will never be safe, no matter what you do.
In the end you&#039;re dying for that adrenaline rush in your dull life,
trying ever more challenging tours. Taking up Trad is a live saving attitude compared to believing in bolts. What keeps you from living it?
Leave the illusions behind.

Then you&#039;ll have the means to at least back up questionable things, instead of having to go direct and use a stick to clip to something you can&#039;t even see and inspect, trust your life on a single bolt belay on uninspected bolts... 

This is a list of things leading to death. The guy coming home from that cut rope didn&#039;t deserve it, he got incredibly lucky. The leader was as stupid as the bolter.

Someday I&#039;ll die due to my own share of stupidity.
That&#039;s human.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the end its bolting that sucks, for the rock and the people. As tragic as this accident is and as shameful as placing a row of improper placed bolts at all, if you climb you accept ALL the risk.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a trad climber and laugh at all these sports guys believing in the safety of bolts. Improperly placed or not, rock becomes loose as well as bolts do. Check what you&#8217;re doing. Back up the stuff you do.<br />
Some things you won&#8217;t find out until to late. That&#8217;s life.</p>
<p>A stone can be bomber for the 2 guys in front of you and rip off size of a truck engine in your hands. Why? Doesn&#8217;t matter, generally that is how erosion works. Sent me flying 4m head first following, being a near miss of a definetely fatal neck breaking grounder. Was hard to cope with.</p>
<p>Inspection by the climbers would have shown these bolts to be loose.</p>
<p>In most areas the first bolters have been locals.<br />
That&#8217;s history of climbing. Many new routes are opened by visitors, because they try things the locals never thought of.</p>
<p>Leave a warning sign on the bolts? Impossible.<br />
In that sense every bolt outside of a gym has such a sign leaving the factory. They get no regular technical inspections. Acctually it depends on the gym how much they are required to inspect them and how they care for actually doing it.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s shiny new? My girl waitnessed a guy in Italy hearing a loud crack, being to late to 3 bolts tying him to a large piece of rock coming of dragging him to death. The bolts didn&#8217;t fail.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t look for safety were there is none.<br />
That&#8217;s what my sailing teacher taught me.<br />
Good lesson, but people of believing themselves being civilized don&#8217;t understand natural life and death responsibility any more.<br />
Go and change views that prove wrong or suffer their consequences.</p>
<p>Storys about improper bolts are frequent.<br />
Sad fact is somebodys got to get hurt before people find out.</p>
<p>In the end that won&#8217;t stop people from climbing.<br />
The ones that quit their dangerous addiction to it are the lucky ones.</p>
<p>This will never be safe, no matter what you do.<br />
In the end you&#8217;re dying for that adrenaline rush in your dull life,<br />
trying ever more challenging tours. Taking up Trad is a live saving attitude compared to believing in bolts. What keeps you from living it?<br />
Leave the illusions behind.</p>
<p>Then you&#8217;ll have the means to at least back up questionable things, instead of having to go direct and use a stick to clip to something you can&#8217;t even see and inspect, trust your life on a single bolt belay on uninspected bolts&#8230; </p>
<p>This is a list of things leading to death. The guy coming home from that cut rope didn&#8217;t deserve it, he got incredibly lucky. The leader was as stupid as the bolter.</p>
<p>Someday I&#8217;ll die due to my own share of stupidity.<br />
That&#8217;s human.</p>
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		<title>By: Gianluca</title>
		<link>http://climbingnarc.com/2009/01/cautionary-tale-about-bad-bolting/comment-page-1/#comment-4622</link>
		<dc:creator>Gianluca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climbingnarc.com/?p=2374#comment-4622</guid>
		<description>Absurd and beyond the word &quot;ethic&quot;. Ethic is deciding wheter to bolt or not. Then if someone decides to bolt, how to do it becomes a matter of safety...

it is also weird, because, for instance, where I used to live until few months ago (an area with two different rock types) it&#039;s quite common knowledge in the community that some kind of bolts are ok no matter what the rock type, some others on the contrary are bomber only on some formations (in that case it is short stem bolts being ok on granite but not on limestone).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absurd and beyond the word &#8220;ethic&#8221;. Ethic is deciding wheter to bolt or not. Then if someone decides to bolt, how to do it becomes a matter of safety&#8230;</p>
<p>it is also weird, because, for instance, where I used to live until few months ago (an area with two different rock types) it&#8217;s quite common knowledge in the community that some kind of bolts are ok no matter what the rock type, some others on the contrary are bomber only on some formations (in that case it is short stem bolts being ok on granite but not on limestone).</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://climbingnarc.com/2009/01/cautionary-tale-about-bad-bolting/comment-page-1/#comment-4593</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climbingnarc.com/?p=2374#comment-4593</guid>
		<description>no kidding. get out more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no kidding. get out more.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://climbingnarc.com/2009/01/cautionary-tale-about-bad-bolting/comment-page-1/#comment-4592</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climbingnarc.com/?p=2374#comment-4592</guid>
		<description>Super sad and disheartening to hear a story like this. As an avid route developer, it frustrates me when people don&#039;t properly establish routes. Americans can be just as guilty as Europeans such as in a recent local episode when a climber established a number of climbs and never tightened down the bolts, creating a potentially dangerous situation given the rock type, similar to this case. This case also highlights the need to use bolts proper to the rock type and area. It is simply dangerous to do otherwise because those who follow depend on those bolts in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Super sad and disheartening to hear a story like this. As an avid route developer, it frustrates me when people don&#8217;t properly establish routes. Americans can be just as guilty as Europeans such as in a recent local episode when a climber established a number of climbs and never tightened down the bolts, creating a potentially dangerous situation given the rock type, similar to this case. This case also highlights the need to use bolts proper to the rock type and area. It is simply dangerous to do otherwise because those who follow depend on those bolts in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Miffed Euro</title>
		<link>http://climbingnarc.com/2009/01/cautionary-tale-about-bad-bolting/comment-page-1/#comment-4586</link>
		<dc:creator>Miffed Euro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 16:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climbingnarc.com/?p=2374#comment-4586</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m as shocked as you are about this accident. Now keep your stupid Euro-US feud that i have nothing to do with to yourself, we&#039;re not all the same you know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m as shocked as you are about this accident. Now keep your stupid Euro-US feud that i have nothing to do with to yourself, we&#8217;re not all the same you know.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Whitfield</title>
		<link>http://climbingnarc.com/2009/01/cautionary-tale-about-bad-bolting/comment-page-1/#comment-4585</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Whitfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 05:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climbingnarc.com/?p=2374#comment-4585</guid>
		<description>The idea wasnt being floated around, it was just some dodgy journo&#039;s trying to sensationalise, and I guess capitalise, on a death. &#039;Climbers Reject Regulation&#039; was the title for the article on the accident in the local newspaper. And thats the extent the idea was floated.

This is a big reminder for visiting climbers to respect and understand local ethics (ie. bolting ethics) as they have usually evolved that way for a reason.  Nick was well known and liked, and he is missed by the entire Australian Climbing community. 

We dont know the people who put in the bolts, but they would have definatly known they were against the ethics of the area, and that they were crap, (being able to be pulled out with less than body weight) as aparanty the nuts wouldnt tighten.

As angered as I am by the incident, I feel sad for the people who bolted it, as they will have Nicks death on their concience for the rest of their lives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea wasnt being floated around, it was just some dodgy journo&#8217;s trying to sensationalise, and I guess capitalise, on a death. &#8216;Climbers Reject Regulation&#8217; was the title for the article on the accident in the local newspaper. And thats the extent the idea was floated.</p>
<p>This is a big reminder for visiting climbers to respect and understand local ethics (ie. bolting ethics) as they have usually evolved that way for a reason.  Nick was well known and liked, and he is missed by the entire Australian Climbing community. </p>
<p>We dont know the people who put in the bolts, but they would have definatly known they were against the ethics of the area, and that they were crap, (being able to be pulled out with less than body weight) as aparanty the nuts wouldnt tighten.</p>
<p>As angered as I am by the incident, I feel sad for the people who bolted it, as they will have Nicks death on their concience for the rest of their lives.</p>
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		<title>By: Philly Cheese</title>
		<link>http://climbingnarc.com/2009/01/cautionary-tale-about-bad-bolting/comment-page-1/#comment-4584</link>
		<dc:creator>Philly Cheese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climbingnarc.com/?p=2374#comment-4584</guid>
		<description>I think the ARI rocks. Much respect to climbers keeping routes safe for other climbers! 

We have to watch out for each others&#039; backs out there folks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the ARI rocks. Much respect to climbers keeping routes safe for other climbers! </p>
<p>We have to watch out for each others&#8217; backs out there folks.</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://climbingnarc.com/2009/01/cautionary-tale-about-bad-bolting/comment-page-1/#comment-4583</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:50:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://climbingnarc.com/?p=2374#comment-4583</guid>
		<description>The New River Gorge Fake Bolt Incident:
http://www.wirednut.com/blog/archive/2007/07/fake_bolts_spro.php

Another instance of bad bolting in Red Rocks:
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/nevada/red_rock/calico_basin/105938048

Pretty tragic accident. Having both a &quot;new&quot; shiny bolt pull out and having the rope cut in once accident is out of this world. Those are two things that I generally deem impossible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The New River Gorge Fake Bolt Incident:<br />
<a href="http://www.wirednut.com/blog/archive/2007/07/fake_bolts_spro.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.wirednut.com/blog/archive/2007/07/fake_bolts_spro.php</a></p>
<p>Another instance of bad bolting in Red Rocks:<br />
<a href="http://www.mountainproject.com/v/nevada/red_rock/calico_basin/105938048" rel="nofollow">http://www.mountainproject.com/v/nevada/red_rock/calico_basin/105938048</a></p>
<p>Pretty tragic accident. Having both a &#8220;new&#8221; shiny bolt pull out and having the rope cut in once accident is out of this world. Those are two things that I generally deem impossible.</p>
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