Chris Sharma Esperanza (V14) Video On MVM

Good point about problems topping out. I don’t think it necessarily is a requirement for a problem to top out to be a classic. I think the combination of moves, historical significance, and sometimes the problem relative to others determines its “classic” status.

I did think similar thoughts though when I visited Morrison where most problems don’t have top outs.

I know some climbers don’t care either way, but it prefer to actually to top out.

it seems that tons of hard, classic stuff has been put up in hueco in the last few years, narcface…. nothing breaking the 14/15 ground, as fred has… and therefore, your point is sound…

it seems like many of the folks how go to hueco are so psyched to climb tons of stuff that negotiating all the requirements to go back to a new project that may or may not actually go is not very convenient or fun for the strong kids… just speculation, though.

as far as not topping out… i think that the quality of the initial moves need to be considered in conjunction with the crappiness of the top out or even its possibility.

if something is super classic, but has a v17 futureistic top out after an obvious finishing jug, should it not be consisered a valid climb just to the jug? all these discussions become very circular because it is very very difficult to impose “validity” ethics fairly, but without specific context.

at the niagara glen, most problems are considered valid if you gain the lip and drop. part of this is because the top outs are almost always dirty jug hauls. part of this is also because the tops look like chia pets and there is a endangered oak bush species that grows on the top outs so it’s illegal to tamper [clean] or stomp the growth up there. so, even if doable, solid rock, and good walk offs exist, this is an example where an unexpected variable comes into play.

all that said, i find it crazy that euros will sometimes gain a victory lip, fist pump, and just drop off when there is no reason not to roll over…. but is this different than dropping off the new river wall after dark waters or formula 50 just because the tall exit is often dirty and loose? why not just rap down and clean it once and for all so we can top out?

it’s all a mess and the bottom line is that like steve mentioned, an ethic will develop for each problem of note after it has been repeated a bunch… some of the rules will be convenient, some will not. …and i’ll fight them all to pad my scorecard.

i hate 8a.nu for the reason of it promotes number chasing. it makes climbing outside like climbing in the gym where everyone brags about the hardest thing they just did. basically gyms are for training nothing more and in my opinion FA’s are 5 times more important than repeats.

OR, no points for anything and have the top 100 list be for the most visited spraysheets, but expand the side bar to cover down to v5 FAs and down to v7 [!] repeats for all genders [male, female, and salo], with the 25 or more most recent sends rather than just a handful.

folks could still kinda spray by logging sends, but it would take the competition out of the hands of the individual… one’s friends/peers would keep them on the top 100 list by visiting their page. perhaps even have it so that only unique visits per day are computed so no one gets super ridiculous american idol and logs into their own page a million times. this would keep the most relevant climbers on the easily accessed list and the rest still searchable. nothing lost but the competitive aspects of the site. if you climb v15 but no one cares about you, presumably because you are a POS bastard, then you will not be able to be on the list, since a climber’s only importance to the community should be relative to how supportive and instrumental of a role that climber plays in the community… not based on sends alone.

for instance, those heart of stone guys are inherently more important to the american climbing scene than, say, v16 climber roland thompson

regardless, the informative and beta-share elements of the site would be retained despite this conversion.

the king of the intardweb hath spoken.

i likes me some vee sevens um hmmm

and sum biscuits and mustard um hmmm

what’s the nearest airport?

who wants to pick me up late on a friday and be ready to cater to my ever climbing whim until taking me back to the airport on sunday?

LINE UP!