Comments on: Whipper Night…Unsafely?

By: Being a Better Belayer « Dream In Vertical

Being a Better Belayer « Dream In Vertical — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:05:13 +0000

[...] devices like the Petzl GriGri or the Edelrid Eddy. A couple months ago, Splitter Choss and the Climbing Narc fostered some discussion about the “proper” way to use a GriGri. If you’ve not [...]

By: The Narc

The Narc — Sat, 10 May 2008 15:07:31 +0000

I did some more practice with method 2 yesterday and while it works pretty well, there were still times when I shortroped the leader. I found that you do have to anticipate clips a bit more and give out a bit of extra slack.

It's funny, the managers at our gym just got back from CWA with a couple of large posters depicting this new belay technique. Apparently it is sweeping the country.

By: Luke

Luke — Fri, 09 May 2008 21:11:20 +0000

I think that the method you use really is related to what you are trying to protect the climber from.

A climber can: Fall while clipping. Fall because he/she is short roped or just fall while climbing.

A belayer must consider how large the diameter of their rope is and how worn their gri-gri is.

These are all important factors and should be taken in effect when you gauge safety of your belay.

I think method 3 is often used because it allows a belayer with a 10mm or higher rope the fastest way to give out slack. This may be unsafe or unnecessary when you have a well worn gri-gri or a smaller rope.

For really long clips can methods other than 3 give our rope quick enough or do you have give some slack a bit sooner than the climber is clipping?

Thoughts?

By: Tom Markiewicz

Tom Markiewicz — Wed, 07 May 2008 23:30:46 +0000

Good point. Wasn’t trying to place blame or call anyone out of my first comment. It is quite interesting over the years I’ve been climbing to see so many different methods of teach people to belay. I’ve had people criticize me on my use of an ATC once because I held my brake hand with thumbs out as opposed to thumbs in!

By: The Narc

The Narc — Wed, 07 May 2008 21:55:17 +0000

That is why I thought it would be interesting to post this as a topic. I agree that just because a large number of people are doing something wrong doesn’t make it right, but it is intriguing the number of people using method 3 that probably don’t think what they are doing is all that unsafe (myself included until recently).

By: Tom Markiewicz

Tom Markiewicz — Wed, 07 May 2008 19:36:32 +0000

Just a follow up to my last comment as it the rest of what I was going to write got cut off and it makes me sounds like an ass!I think the reason this is a big pet peeve for me is I have seen a lot of people using a grigri the wrong way at the New the past few years.It’s very easy to assume the device is infallible and belayers then don’t pay attention. This combination is then extremely dangerous.When experienced and attentive belayers use method 3 I guess that’s why we haven’t seen more accidents.I think the key is simply bringing this to climbers’ attention so that everyone can at least make informed choices.

By: Tom Markiewicz

Tom Markiewicz — Wed, 07 May 2008 19:21:38 +0000

@The Narc – but it shouldn’t be different anywhere, that’s my point. just because everyone you know does it the wrong (and unsafe) way, doesn’t make it right…

By: Sara

Sara — Mon, 05 May 2008 17:40:00 +0000

There are definitely regional differences in belaying technique — I climb at a gym where people use methods 1 & 2 and would probably be forced out of the gym by a mob if they belayed using method 3. A friend moved to the other side of the state and had a terrible time finding climbing partners because EVERYONE belayed with method 3.I use a hybrid of 1 & 2… I belay with thumb out (like 1) but then flip and use my thumb to hold down the cam while I feed out for clipping. I’m going to try #2 the next time I climb, since it is slightly more elegant than what I’m doing now. I prefer the grigri to an ATC while belaying — I actually short rope my climbing partners less on a grigri using my 1/2 method than with an ATC (I’m not kidding). I climbed my first season belaying on a grigri using thumb-out and trying to feed like an ATC… I constantly shortroped partners and was miserable until someone taught me the method shown as #1 in the video Narc posted.To the poster who said that his or her partners don’t tend to fall when clipping — I have exactly the opposite experience. My climbing partners DO tend toward falls when clipping, so I am a very careful belayer. I had a climbing partner take a massive whipper from the top of the climbing wall at our gym — I was belaying on an ATC, and he’s a big guy, with really, really long arms (I’m a small girl). He got to the finish holds and I have to throw out several of my armlengths of slack for him to clip in and his hand peeled off the finish hold before making the clip. He fell, I flew, and we just about met at the first clip. I’ve had other partners fall while clipping, with extra slack out for the clip. In my circle of climbing friends, we communicate — if the leader thinks they’re in for a sketchy clip, they let their belayer know so that the belayer can feed out adequate rope for the clip but be prepared once the rope is out to catch a big fall.Climb safe, all…

By: nate- Dawg

nate- Dawg — Mon, 05 May 2008 00:33:05 +0000

Im glad 2 see that u belay the bad way narc. seeing as u almost killed me with that last shortrope whip. hah. im a poor belayer too.

By: The Narc

The Narc — Sun, 04 May 2008 16:12:35 +0000

I guess it must be different everywhere. I’m not sure I know anyone that doesn’t take their brake hand off to feed out slack.

I tried method 2 yesterday at the gym and found that it actually worked quite well.