How Much Landscaping Of Boulders Is Ok?

the grey zone here will ensure the perpetuity of arguments on either side!
seems like the ‘dead’ nature of this desertscape makes the act less of a concern than where life is more abundant, or is that exactly wrong?  hard to say.
if presence of life is the measuring stick, is it not horrible to remove carpets of moss from yosemite granite or BC granite, or is it less of an issue since such plant life is sooo abundant?
maybe juxtapose this story w/ that report on frb linking to some 10k project to remove trees, dirt, and ecosystems from a moderate multi-pitch in squamish.
or maybe compare w/ that bouldering joint in venezuala  [i spell like an amerikan!!!] that raised eyebrows from dosage….
or compare that with having a road and toilets next to the mushroom boulder.
or compare that with widening the road to bear lake in rmnp.
or compare that with coal and oil mining throughout the west.
etc

@ Sock Hands,  You do make a good argument but, because its already being done in other locations makes it ok?  I think no!  The problem with people is that if its something is being done worse than what they are doing, they think that they don’t make as big of an impact, true, but it all adds up.

i guess the reason for pointing out the larger scale impacts of humans is to try to put everything into context.  frankly, i don’t think i’d ever want to expend the effort to excavate some problem, but i’m getting sick of land managers approaching climbers as the devil.  every time a certain practice is questioned, i think it needs to be questioned in a larger context.
does it change one’s stance if the “digging out” is of solid rock in a talus field versus dirt and sand? 
do issues of non-endangered biological presence and/or drainage patters influence the decision of right or wrong in each cricumstance?
what if the issue is not so much digging out a problem as it is ‘landscaping’ a landing?
when is landscaping right?  when is it wrong?  
every single instance of ethical inquiry blends in to larger questions.
are we enterring a time when ‘working’ on landings, etc, is an issue that should require permitting to ensure it is done in such a way as to help minimize erosion and impact, similar to how certain areas require permits for bolting?
i realize that you feel this is outside the scope of the original question… but i’m slowly circling back… ?
suffice to say that in 15 years i’d rather our fragile bouldering areas be criscrossed with established foot paths and with neatly terraced landings, resembling a meticulously maintained zen garden, rather than being widely trampled for fear of ‘making a trail’ like seems to be occuring currently.
my point is that the impact of digging out this problem is, in my mind, substatially less of an issue than the impact of the next few decades of keen boulderers visiting it.  how they get to it, assemble around it, and enjoy themselves in the vicinity is a much larger issue.  if no one ever returns to this problem, wind and water will eventually deposit the sand back where it wishes to be.
i just typed myself out of another lunch.  back to work.

It’s probably not a good idea to ever dig out a landing with a shovel (surely you can take this as sign of a problem’s low quality 100% of the time–if you won’t, then I will).

But more importantly, it’s not a good idea for MVM to show climbers digging out landings with shovels. It’s irresponsible of MVM.

Of course, the construction and deconstruction of boulder landings happens and continues to happen. Often though, one simply can’t tell the difference afterwards. This is a good thing, because impacts are pretty much invisible. But when MVM films climbers doing this–no matter where the piece of land is, no matter who owns it–the difference is unmistakable. The impacts, along with who exactly is making them, are highly visible. If depicted positively, there may even be implicit condonement, and other climbers who hadn’t thought of it will start doing it. All this is a very bad thing, ‘bad’ as in area-closing bad.

For land managers, a video like this can create the worst kind of perception of climbers. That the digging took place in a seemingly innocuous place like a desert doesn’t really matter. The video is what matters here. The video shows possible climber behavior; for land managers, that possibility is enough to make management decisions. (Where I live in western NC, something like this would easily shut down multiple bouldering areas.)

And if you wanted to take one more step down the rabbit hole, the analogy between chipping and landing-modification could be explored…weeeee!

Frankly, I’m much more concerned with what large real estate developers are doing to our lands to turn a profit and split than what a few climbers do under a boulder.  Minnesota’s beloved “Cave Boulder” on the Wisconsin side of Interstate had a ton of boulders excavated from under to make it climbable.  That boulder has more problems on it than any other in the park.  I think it was worth moving a bit of dirt and rocks around.  I’m mean, seriously, we’re desperate for rock here!

I think all digging out should be limited to what you can remove with your hands… without gloves. I don’t believe in shovels. I also don’t approve of kneepads. Or offwidths for that matter. Honestly though, digging out a waist deep hole? Hmm, this probably made the problem easier actually. So go figure.

i dont think removing the dirt made it any easier. just possible, instead of too low to the ground.
my vote was that it was OK for him to dig it out. honestly i dont find it to be such a big deal.

i think the big issue here is making it public. many bouldering areas have had this kind of work done to them, but most folks weren’t there when it was developed and don’t realize what went into creating their favorite spot. It’s certainly way less egregious than building an interstate or housing development, but it’s these small actions the public and land managers see and like to latch on to. I don’t know why its so hard to keep this stuff under wraps, just use your heads people!!!

No one has weighed in on the issue for a long time but I thought it may be important to note that if anyone had been to the area they would understand the need and lack of harm done in digging the landing out. It is located in the middle of nowhere near the virgin river. Every winter when the river it reaches its high point it redistributes the sand. Every year the landings change a little but the river puts all the sand back under this roof. SO all the “damage” is repaired naturally every year. The problem has been dug out again this year but I anticipate this spring’s runoff to be high so it will no doubt be filled back in within the next few months.
Also you can compare this activity to a lot of others but it is a different situation. All the climbers involved in developing this crag also helped organize a movement to stop developers from taking over Moe’s Valley. Moe’s is now a protected climbing area thanks to them. If you mimicked this activity in your area and caused access issue you are an ass and should understand your own area better.