Comments on: Hard, Unrepeated American Routes

By: Mark

Mark — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 23:28:56 +0000

Bump for update – Psychedelic

By: Jon

Jon — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 15:20:02 +0000

Maybe the reason is the traditional American style/ethic of ground up ascents and the stigma of rap-bolting in many crags. The European style is a bit more permissive (head-point, rap-bolt, via-ferrata…) but without that style we wouldn’t get to discuss how freakishly strong those damn Europeans are.

By: J V

J V — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 20:17:37 +0000

I think Ghetto Booty is supposed to be 14.b.

By: Chris Sharma Sends Clark Mountain Super Project | Climbing Narcissist

Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:00:36 +0000

[...] mention of a grade or name right now, but this route is clearly a contender for one of the hardest routes in the U.S. You have to give a lot of credit to Randy Leavitt for having the vision to bolt this route over [...]

By: cam

cam — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:58:14 +0000

I am from the Rumney area and have gone up to it to stare in awe. Imagine Jade like holds, (Woods RMNP) and then try and clip off them. impossible at the moment. So you have two choices TR or boulder. It cant be classified as a sport route since you cant clip it as a normal redpoint, unless some new phenom wants to try. Its a scary as hell boulder is what I would say and for some it isnt worth broken bones since the landing is a jumble of granite blocs and moss. by the way, i love the ladder next to it. makes us all feel so weak.

By: peter

peter — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:57:40 +0000

Kehl has climbed a bunch of v12′s (or basically 5.13d’s?) including Evilution and Straight outta squampton, so he definitely has the head for a death landing. He made the first ascent of the unrepeated “The New Zero” at the holy boulders in Southern illinois, speculating that it might be around v13. Subsequent access issues suggest that this grade might always be in question. He’s also climbed Black Lung, which is speculated to be around v12/13. I believe he also made the second ascent of Lamiche’s “The Shield” (hard v12) in LRC during Sportiva’s solution team tour.Basically, I can see how Kehl, in good shape, on the right problem for him, could climb v14.

By: Climbing Narcissist

Climbing Narcissist — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:59:52 +0000

Yeah, if they had the approach hike of Rifle things would be a bit different.

It is especially amazing when you consider the weather at these U.S. crags compared to the weather at UK crags!

By: Tims

Tims — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:56:59 +0000

Exactly – If Fortress of Solitude and Clarke Mountain were both 10 minute hikes I’m sure they would have seen more action and even some repeats. It still seems pretty crazy that the number of routes in the grade range here in the little old UK is comparable to that in the U.S!

By: Climbing Narcissist

Climbing Narcissist — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:24:45 +0000

Thanks for the article Tim, that was a great write-up! It does seem as though most futuristic sport crags in the U.S. require incredible amounts of effort just to get to them, let alone equip and work projects.

By: TimS

TimS — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:15:15 +0000

This article http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=854 gives a good idea of the quality of crags available virtually roadside in Spain. It’s the same in France too, in areas like Gorges Du Tarn there’s amazing cliffs that haven’t been climbed on at all because they’re more than 20 minutes walk from the road.

By: Climbing Narcissist

Climbing Narcissist — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:24:12 +0000

Most definitely Peter. Kehl's ascent certainly set the bar for future repeats to be done sans rope. He proved that it could safely be climbed without a rope. Add in the fact that the other ascents were basically done on TR and I guess you could make a good argument for it to be counted as a boulder problem.

As an aside, Ty Landman was trying 'The Fly' last year as well and I think he used a rope.

In the long run it doesn't really matter where it is included though I guess. Either way it is super difficult.

With regard to the grade, it is notable that Kehl did it and he is not really known for climbing many (any?) V13s or any V14s that I am aware of.

By: peter

peter — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:14:20 +0000

I don’t think that anyone besides Kehl has repeated the Fly sans rope. It seems plausible that Kevin Jorgeson or Ethan Pringle may try at some point, though. My point was not that it’s attracted more attention as a BP but rather that once Kehl “soloed” / bouldered the route DG retroactively moved the Fly from a route to a boulder problem on his scorecard. In doing this, DG suggested that by not TR’ing what should be a boulder problem, Kehl indeed did it in a better, or at least a more pure, form than the way in which he had done it.

By: Luke

Luke — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:51:43 +0000

Not quite sure about the grade but Livin' Astroglide at Rumney checks in at either 14c or 14c/d. Its an extension to Graham's Livin' Astro redpointed by Joey Kinder. http://www.climbing.com/news/hotflashes/hardrumn/

By: Climbing Narcissist

Climbing Narcissist — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:05:10 +0000

Gabor – you are probably right and that is something I may do in the near future. However, a similar list in Europe would probably be exponentially longer. Also, my knowledge of route info is decidely not as complete as my boulder knowledge.

By: gabor

gabor — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 12:27:48 +0000

i tihnk you should change it to 8c+ and up. Then the list would actually be a normal length.
as for the reasons, theres just not enough people syked on hard routes in the US. In Spain and France theres a group of maybe 50 people going around and climbing and establishing new 5.14s all the time. In the US its the same thing except with V12 and harder boulders. Different places, different environments, different sykes.

By: Climbing Narcissist

Climbing Narcissist — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:39:28 +0000

Peter – has anyone besides Kehl climbed it without a rope?

By: the treacherous baron "big poppa" von chosscrush VII

the treacherous baron "big poppa" von chosscrush VII — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:29:10 +0000

i would like to make an offer to purchase the screen name “hardforgrades” used by a poster on b3bouldering.com.

while admittedly gross, this cracks me up to high levels.

final note: if anyone can clip on lead, expecially the coveted and elusive mid-deadpoint clip, i say give em 5.15b for it. when climbing highballs in the boot of doom last summer, i practiced a few on self-belay TR and found that when climbing ropeless, even in a boot, it was at least a full v-grade easier [or more].

to boost the v grade of my best sends, i plan on repeating them with top rope self belay tactics. and a beer in my chalk bag.

By: tissuetendons

tissuetendons — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:17:13 +0000

everybody knows the gravity is weaker in Europe. has something to do with the location of the Prime Meridian, and the erroneous signification of soccer as ‘futbol’. i only climb in the America: where we have ‘real’ gravity.

By: peter

peter — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 17:55:58 +0000

DG moved the fly to be an 8B+ boulder on hid 8a card, noting that he used a rope and registering it as a TR ascent. given the fact that he did the FA, I would be inclined to defer to his discretion and count it as among the hardest boulders in America.

By: Craig B

Craig B — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:00:23 +0000

When I tried the fly I didn’t boulder it or preclip it. There is a ladder right next to it and yo can touch all the “Holds” as you pass them. Thats how I roll. I think in the next couple of years with the “weak” American dollar we should see an influx of euro climbers then we will see what they are made of. I know that when I have climbed over seas I have gotten some of my hardest red points. what does this mean??? I don’t know. But I shall wait for the narcs take on it.

By: Climbing Narcissist

Climbing Narcissist — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:43:17 +0000

I’ll put the Fly on here I guess. I’m not really 100% on the list of repeats though.

Also, I don’t believe anyone has climbed it without the first 2 draws pre-clipped with the exception of Kehl who bouldered it.

By: JE

JE — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 07:36:48 +0000

he is fake

By: zonk

zonk — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:26:07 +0000

for completeness, luke parady and sharma also climbed the fly. and on 8a.nu, christophe maschelein too (as well as other hard boulder problems. from his scorecard, it also sounds as if he also bouldered the fly). i know nothing about him though. can anyone help out?

By: Climbing Narcissist

Climbing Narcissist — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:54:19 +0000

I’m a little unsure about where to include the fly with respect to the style of its ascent as well as its grade. I should probably put it on one of the lists though.

By: tbwilsonky

tbwilsonky — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:07:37 +0000

if you don’t pre-clip the first two you might as well just solo/highball it. plus, if i’m not mistaken, those clips would be nigh impossible.

By: Evan

Evan — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:57:35 +0000

Isn’t “The Fly” at Rumney rated 14d? It was put up by Graham and repeated by Lamiche I believe. And I heard that Jason Kehl bouldered it out since it is only about 40 feet high and the crux is in the first three moves or so. Maybe this is neither a route or a boulder problem, but it probably deserves mention somewhere. There is video of Lamiche on it somewhere out there and it looks like he has the first two bolts pre-clipped seems like it is nearly a toprope this way (since i don’t remember him clipping any more bolts before the anchor).